I was given a forwardly dated, admittedly bad check a week ago in South Carolina, myself and they have tried numerous different ways to make this check right, and at this point I just obviously can tell that they are lying to me and they don't have the money and they really don't have any plans of giving me the money, so my question is what should I do? I could deposit the check into my account let it bounce, and I believe that the amount is probably enough to make it a felony, so my question is should I do that?
68908
Additional information is I was given the check on New Year's Eve, the check was dated for January 4th 2018, and the check is for a substantial amount of money. I actually drove 2 hours to where they were this morning to get the cash, and then they changed and said that they wouldn't be able to make it until 1 p.m., and I'm pretty much forced to return back to work.
On the 4th they also tried to wire me the money into my account, and on Friday I found out that for some odd reason that service that they used was rejected by my bank.
On the 4th they also tried to wire me the money into my account, and on Friday I found out that for some odd reason that service that they used was rejected by my bank.
Can you go to a local branch or the bank the bad check is drawn on and try to cash it....? If not and I was going to deposit into my account I would let my banker know upfront that it is probably bad.
Good luck....
Brian
Good luck....
Brian
EJR, what type of totally voluntary contractual agreement did you make with this other party, and what provisions did it have for nonpayment and debt collection?
Absent a voluntary agreement between free citizens that says you can take money or property from them when they do not wish to hand it over.. .
The only other choice is to allow government goons, empowered by a brainwashed Statist population, to initiate aggression on your behalf, to enforce those bogus “laws” that you always say are illegitimate.
Absent a voluntary agreement between free citizens that says you can take money or property from them when they do not wish to hand it over.. .
The only other choice is to allow government goons, empowered by a brainwashed Statist population, to initiate aggression on your behalf, to enforce those bogus “laws” that you always say are illegitimate.
I would deposit the check so there is proof that it was bad. I usually saw three reasons: NSF (non-sufficient funds), Closed Acct or Refer to maker. Refer to maker is the bank saying they are too lazy to put the real reason.
After getting the returned check I would make attempts to contact the person who wrote the check. Notate date, time and numbers.
Contact your local law enforcement. Here in Cobb, municipal police don't usually touch this and ask you to go to the Sheriff's Office. Where you received the check may be where you need to go as far as filing a report. I am not sure about this. Good luck with dealing with this.
As I always said to victims: Fraud happens at lightning speed, the investigation/prosecution is snail slow.
After getting the returned check I would make attempts to contact the person who wrote the check. Notate date, time and numbers.
Contact your local law enforcement. Here in Cobb, municipal police don't usually touch this and ask you to go to the Sheriff's Office. Where you received the check may be where you need to go as far as filing a report. I am not sure about this. Good luck with dealing with this.
As I always said to victims: Fraud happens at lightning speed, the investigation/prosecution is snail slow.
So that I can be at least a little helpful here, please give more info about the circumstances.
Particularly as to what brought you, a Ga resident (I assume?) to SC. What work did you perform to earn this money? Where did you do the work? What State? What is the residency of the other party?
Did the other party tell you that the post dated check would not be good at the time it was given, but only that he hoped and wxpected it to be good in the near future?
Particularly as to what brought you, a Ga resident (I assume?) to SC. What work did you perform to earn this money? Where did you do the work? What State? What is the residency of the other party?
Did the other party tell you that the post dated check would not be good at the time it was given, but only that he hoped and wxpected it to be good in the near future?
I’d have a different answer depending on circumstances. Pay for labor? Goods? Services? Real estate? Settlement? Payment of debt? Some other promise?
Similarly my relationship and responsibilities to the other party comes into play as does my overall effort and expense to get paid.
All of the above would likely define venue and degree of effort I’d invest.
Similarly my relationship and responsibilities to the other party comes into play as does my overall effort and expense to get paid.
All of the above would likely define venue and degree of effort I’d invest.
Yep, not enough info. If it is for an antecedent debt, then no criminal options are on the table whatsoever.
I do find irony in this thread, when reality hits anarchist ideals with a slap across the face, but at the same time I truly hope you collect what is owed to you.
I do find irony in this thread, when reality hits anarchist ideals with a slap across the face, but at the same time I truly hope you collect what is owed to you.
Please elaborate. Looking at § 16-9-20, I don't see any exceptions based on the reason a bad check was tendered.
Consider this: Who/what is preventing him from settling this dispute himself?
The government loves to remove a person's ability to do for themselves, rush in to be the solution, and then tell everyone why they couldn't live without them. All for a fee of course...
My elderly demented father wrote a check for $1,000 once.
It was altered, sloppily even, to be $100.000 and it cashed.
Took a long time to get the money back, mainly through going after the bank.
It was altered, sloppily even, to be $100.000 and it cashed.
Took a long time to get the money back, mainly through going after the bank.
Tell them they have 24 hours to wire the money to your bank, or you'll go to the police. If the police won't help, then small claims court, unless the amount is too high for that.
AtlPhilip:
The "Deposit Account Fraud" law says: "....in exchange for a present consideration or wages, ..."
That's what Malum was talking about. If the payment was offered to settle a debt that had been incurred in the past, for a deal made at an earlier time, that's NOT "present consideration" today.
The Georgia bad checks law applies when the deal IS at that time being made, and part of the deal is one party hands-over a check that is supposed to be good and valid payment at that time.
In Georgia, a post-dated check, especially one with verbal instructions NOT to try to cash it or deposit it before that date on its face, is a payment that is not "present consideration" for the deal. (As a matter of contract law it is, because a promise to pay in the future is a form of consideration. Just a promise can bind a contract. But our courts say that for criminal law purposes it is NOT. This statute has been interpreted in light of the GA constitution's provision that we will not imprison people for debt, and thus a post dated check that is nothing more than a promise to pay on a certain future date can't support a felony bad check prosecution.
*P.S. * When a deal or contract made in the past calls for a series of future payments, such as monthly payments for rent, THEN each of these payments is deemed present consideration because the debt was not DUE until this current time, even if the deal was struck a long time ago.
The "Deposit Account Fraud" law says: "....in exchange for a present consideration or wages, ..."
That's what Malum was talking about. If the payment was offered to settle a debt that had been incurred in the past, for a deal made at an earlier time, that's NOT "present consideration" today.
The Georgia bad checks law applies when the deal IS at that time being made, and part of the deal is one party hands-over a check that is supposed to be good and valid payment at that time.
In Georgia, a post-dated check, especially one with verbal instructions NOT to try to cash it or deposit it before that date on its face, is a payment that is not "present consideration" for the deal. (As a matter of contract law it is, because a promise to pay in the future is a form of consideration. Just a promise can bind a contract. But our courts say that for criminal law purposes it is NOT. This statute has been interpreted in light of the GA constitution's provision that we will not imprison people for debt, and thus a post dated check that is nothing more than a promise to pay on a certain future date can't support a felony bad check prosecution.
*P.S. * When a deal or contract made in the past calls for a series of future payments, such as monthly payments for rent, THEN each of these payments is deemed present consideration because the debt was not DUE until this current time, even if the deal was struck a long time ago.
Yes, I think it’s criminal in June 2018, because that’s when the payment was due, on-time.
But giving a $12,000 check now, postdated, with instructions to cash it in June, would not be a criminal matter.
But giving a $12,000 check now, postdated, with instructions to cash it in June, would not be a criminal matter.
I do not think Situation B would be criminal, either. Civil. Hopefully you took security in the tractor for nonpayment of the debt.
I do not know the law in South Carolina. Maybe a post dated check can be a crime there. It's not in Georgia. It's debt and a civil matter.
I disagree with gunsmoker. I have not researched it. I am basically going off the top of my head, so take it for what it is worth, which is about what you paid for it.
Under banking rules a post dated check means nothing. Date on a check don't matter at all as to whether or when it is cashable.
In fact, you will find most all common sense things that would make a bank liable for something - really don't. They have had years of lobbying to fix the laws.
In fact, you will find most all common sense things that would make a bank liable for something - really don't. They have had years of lobbying to fix the laws.
A post-dated check cannot be the basis of a bad check criminal case in Georgia.
I believe caselaw says so, in addition to the "present consideration" language of the Code itself. And, if you visit some of the websites of the Magistrate and State Courts around Georgia, many of them have "guidelines" that give examples of what could be, and what cannot be, considered "present consideration."
I looked up just a couple cases, and I think I was wrong about payments for the SALE of a vehicle. Only the first check, if given at the time of the original deal or pretty close to that time (days, not weeks) would be part of the deal itself, presently.
BUT FOR THE RENTAL of a vehicle, or renting a home or office space, or renting anything else, that's one of those special situations where the legislature has declared that they "are" present consideration. And a 1980 Georgia Supreme Court case says that there's a good reason for that-- since offering a bad check to keep something you've rented will have the effect of preventing or delaying the owner of the property in repossessing it. The Court found this law, and specifically the "rent payments = present consideration" aspect of it constitutional and not in violation of the "no imprisonment for debt" constitutional mandate.
(That's Cobb v. State, 246 Ga. 567 (1980).
More recent cases add that whether a deal is ongoing or has already been completed in the past may depend on many factors specific to that case, so there's no bright-line rule about the issue of when the goods or services are handed-over on one side vs. when and where the check is delivered. It's a totality of circumstances analysis (which means judges and juries have all the power to go whichever way they want it to go!)
I believe caselaw says so, in addition to the "present consideration" language of the Code itself. And, if you visit some of the websites of the Magistrate and State Courts around Georgia, many of them have "guidelines" that give examples of what could be, and what cannot be, considered "present consideration."
I looked up just a couple cases, and I think I was wrong about payments for the SALE of a vehicle. Only the first check, if given at the time of the original deal or pretty close to that time (days, not weeks) would be part of the deal itself, presently.
BUT FOR THE RENTAL of a vehicle, or renting a home or office space, or renting anything else, that's one of those special situations where the legislature has declared that they "are" present consideration. And a 1980 Georgia Supreme Court case says that there's a good reason for that-- since offering a bad check to keep something you've rented will have the effect of preventing or delaying the owner of the property in repossessing it. The Court found this law, and specifically the "rent payments = present consideration" aspect of it constitutional and not in violation of the "no imprisonment for debt" constitutional mandate.
(That's Cobb v. State, 246 Ga. 567 (1980).
More recent cases add that whether a deal is ongoing or has already been completed in the past may depend on many factors specific to that case, so there's no bright-line rule about the issue of when the goods or services are handed-over on one side vs. when and where the check is delivered. It's a totality of circumstances analysis (which means judges and juries have all the power to go whichever way they want it to go!)
P.S. In Georgia , these are the special circumstances that the legislature has announced will be "present" consideration:
* Wages (see the first line in 16-9-20).
(for all other things below, see subsection "f")
* rent
* child support supported by an order or written agreement
* taxes owed to the State
* a check offered to entice a existing creditor to extend one’s credit
* checks given in exchange for a waiver of certain lien rights.
* Wages (see the first line in 16-9-20).
(for all other things below, see subsection "f")
* rent
* child support supported by an order or written agreement
* taxes owed to the State
* a check offered to entice a existing creditor to extend one’s credit
* checks given in exchange for a waiver of certain lien rights.
Georgia has nothing to do with EJR914's dispute.
From the SCBar:
https://www.scbar.org/public/get-legal-help/common-legal-topics/south-carolina-bad-check-law/
This looks like a civil dispute, in whatever court in South Carolina has jurisdiction over the debtor and the amount in dispute.
Sorry, EJR914, there is no criminal action to be filed for a bad check based upon the facts you have provided.
Sorry, EJR914, there is no criminal action to be filed for a bad check based upon the facts you have provided.
I do hate to be so crass, it was brought up, but if anything this has solidified my positions, and if anything after reading these replies in this thread, and seeing how ineffectual the government is about doing anything, and realizing how many thousands of dollars I would lose in wages trying to fight it out in small claims court, or lose thousands hiring an attorney to take care of it, I see just how pointless the government really is, and I was able to find a more than adequate solution with a private option.
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