Georgia Firearm Forums - Georgia Packing banner
1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
758 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
IV been reading some post on other forums and I've noticed alot o post about how the Black Hawk sepras are "deadly". Their main 3 complaints where that the release finger button can become locked when junk gets behind it, the button is to fine a motor skill in a stressful situation and how the button makes it to easy for a accidental discharge. Has anyone here experienced any of the above?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
611 Posts
ZTC said:
IV been reading some post on other forums and I've noticed alot o post about how the Black Hawk sepras are "deadly". Their main 3 complaints where that the release finger button can become locked when junk gets behind it, the button is to fine a motor skill in a stressful situation and how the button makes it to easy for a accidental discharge. Has anyone here experienced any of the above?
I wear one alot. 1. It is mechanical, therefore jamming w/ debris is possible. IMO there is [lenty of room around the release to clear most stuff. Again, it could happen, I dont worry about it.

2. & 3. Practice w/ it alot before wearing. If you release it as intended (go to there website & watch the Todd Jarret vid) no fine motor skill needed. Dont release it w./ the tip of your finger, chances of a ND are slim to none. Slim lives in Texas!

I started out slow motion & built speed when I felt that I could without error.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,048 Posts
It's something you have to grow accustomed to using. I have one and I like it alot. I have used it many times at the range and in a couple of classes.

It's more like a sweep of the index finger, rather than actually pushing the release button in, that releases the lock on the weapon. Once you're used to the way it works, it is really easy. A big plus, to me, is that there is a tactile feel and an audible click when you re-holster. That way you know the weapon is secure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,868 Posts
Re: Your thoughts Black Hawk SERPA...

I own both the Serpa CQC as well as Safariland ALS Level II and Level III holsters. I'm a big believer in retention systems for any exposed holster, as long as you train religiously with them. The Serpa system has worked OK for me for general purpose OWB carry, although I have heard of ADs that were the focus of Serpa recalls several years ago. Don't know if I would go as far as to call them "deadly" (sounds like over-zealous counter-marketing to me). Any type of retention holster is going to require some level of motor skill to release, and the Serpa is pretty natural from what I have experienced.

That being said however, from a retention perspective, I prefer not to have the release mechanism on the side of the holster away from my body (i.e. outboard). Not so much from a dirt in the mechanism standpoint, but more so that (I believe) an outboard release is much easier for someone to access when trying to grab your weapon.

This is purely my own personal opinion, but having used both for years, I prefer the Safariland ALS mechanism where the release mechanisms are located on the inboard side of the holster, towards the body, and actuated by the thumb instead of the index finger. These are the retention holsters our department has standardized on. I've found the Safariland system to be more hidden and somewhat more difficult to access for anyone not wearing the holster, especially when coming at you from a side angle.

While it might not make much of a difference when confronted with the hardened criminal who has been training in the prison yard on perfecting his weapon snatch technique, I believe that with some luck this can buy you seconds to take immediate and forceful action in the event of an attempted weapon snatch by the more routine street thug.
 

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
28,316 Posts
I like my serpa. My only problem with it is that sometimes I carry the gun in a thumb-break holster and sometimes I carry it in the Serpa, and each has a different method of releasing the weapon.
But so far, no problems. The Serpa releases with a quick and easy press if the trigger finger, and I don't think it slows you down UNLESS you forget about the button!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,762 Posts
Never carried in one. How closely do they hold to your body? I use leather pancakes for owb concealment because the hug tightly. Will these hold tight or is there a gap between the gun and you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,196 Posts
I use a serpa 70% of the time. I've never had an issue with it getting stuck. As for the release/draw.. since the trigger is covered, the natural motion of laying my index finger along the line of my gun when I draw puts it in perfect position to release the catch as I lift away. It lays fairly close to your body, but it is OWB so it's not a perfect concealed carry holster. For purely concealed, I still love my Cross-breed.

For dress occassions... it's the Zookeepers snap-on !! It don't get better than that :)
Thanks again Chuck !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,182 Posts
ZTC said:
IV been reading some post on other forums and I've noticed alot o post about how the Black Hawk sepras are "deadly". Their main 3 complaints where that the release finger button can become locked when junk gets behind it, the button is to fine a motor skill in a stressful situation and how the button makes it to easy for a accidental discharge. Has anyone here experienced any of the above?
Not just once but twice. Same range different people, same RO. Had to pick pieces of copper jacket & lead from my left leg the first time. Nothing I could not easily dig out but the RO was upset to say the least.
It was timed fire from the draw with multiple lanes, 15 rounds, 20 seconds. Signal to commence fire was given and 'bang' right into the concrete 16" from my left boot. I didn't feel it till I moved my leg once the sequence was done. I raised my pantleg and saw a bit of blood going down my leg from three places. The shooter commenced to freaking out and saying how sorry he was, RO pulled both of us off the line, reports written, 27 8x10 color glossy photos taken and I denied medical treatment. 45 minutes later and three band-aids later I was back on the line finishing up my shoot.

Second time almost the same thing except no frag in the leg as the AD by the shooter happened just behind and to my left into the concrete. I stopped cold, cleared my weapon and backed off the line looking at the RO and pointing at the shooter. This time it was almost comical. Reports written etc...

Funny thing, same pants, same boots & I always now have dibbs on lane one whenever I go there and the shooter on lane two must be right handed by order of the RO and his boss. I now have the nickname "Serpaleg" there. :lol:
I now refuse to shoot next to anyone using a serpa anywhere. This is why all my holsters 'moo' except for my nylon drop leg.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
I carry mostly my leather holsters but I do have a Hawk that I use with a Glock 23. You need to practice with it but I think it does a fine job. No issues to date.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
I wear a blackhawk serpa 80% of the time with my 1911. I don't see how I could ever accidently discharge it because the safety is only "flicked" off when my arms are almost in the ready to fire position. Did I miss a rule somewhere, where Im suppose to turn the safety off before even drawing? :shattered:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
I prefer the Safariland 6377 for my non 1911 pistols. The retention is a tab that's pulled toward you slightly and operated by the thumb. It's right where the thumb is naturally when you're drawing and doesn't require that you "hit it just right". Also, the thumb is [typically] the strongest finger, so you could probably power pull if there were any debris, but it's not designed the same was as the Serpa so that may not be as much of an issue.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,624 Posts
Puffyfish said:
ZTC said:
IV been reading some post on other forums and I've noticed alot o post about how the Black Hawk sepras are "deadly". Their main 3 complaints where that the release finger button can become locked when junk gets behind it, the button is to fine a motor skill in a stressful situation and how the button makes it to easy for a accidental discharge. Has anyone here experienced any of the above?
Not just once but twice. Same range different people, same RO. Had to pick pieces of copper jacket & lead from my left leg the first time. Nothing I could not easily dig out but the RO was upset to say the least.
It was timed fire from the draw with multiple lanes, 15 rounds, 20 seconds. Signal to commence fire was given and 'bang' right into the concrete 16" from my left boot. I didn't feel it till I moved my leg once the sequence was done. I raised my pantleg and saw a bit of blood going down my leg from three places. The shooter commenced to freaking out and saying how sorry he was, RO pulled both of us off the line, reports written, 27 8x10 color glossy photos taken and I denied medical treatment. 45 minutes later and three band-aids later I was back on the line finishing up my shoot.

Second time almost the same thing except no frag in the leg as the AD by the shooter happened just behind and to my left into the concrete. I stopped cold, cleared my weapon and backed off the line looking at the RO and pointing at the shooter. This time it was almost comical. Reports written etc...

Funny thing, same pants, same boots & I always now have dibbs on lane one whenever I go there and the shooter on lane two must be right handed by order of the RO and his boss. I now have the nickname "Serpaleg" there. :lol:
I now refuse to shoot next to anyone using a serpa anywhere. This is why all my holsters 'moo' except for my nylon drop leg.
Blame the equipment and not the shooter? :?

It's the car, not the driver?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,182 Posts
AV8R said:
Puffyfish said:
ZTC said:
IV been reading some post on other forums and I've noticed alot o post about how the Black Hawk sepras are "deadly". Their main 3 complaints where that the release finger button can become locked when junk gets behind it, the button is to fine a motor skill in a stressful situation and how the button makes it to easy for a accidental discharge. Has anyone here experienced any of the above?
Not just once but twice. Same range different people, same RO. Had to pick pieces of copper jacket & lead from my left leg the first time. Nothing I could not easily dig out but the RO was upset to say the least.
It was timed fire from the draw with multiple lanes, 15 rounds, 20 seconds. Signal to commence fire was given and 'bang' right into the concrete 16" from my left boot. I didn't feel it till I moved my leg once the sequence was done. I raised my pantleg and saw a bit of blood going down my leg from three places. The shooter commenced to freaking out and saying how sorry he was, RO pulled both of us off the line, reports written, 27 8x10 color glossy photos taken and I denied medical treatment. 45 minutes later and three band-aids later I was back on the line finishing up my shoot.

Second time almost the same thing except no frag in the leg as the AD by the shooter happened just behind and to my left into the concrete. I stopped cold, cleared my weapon and backed off the line looking at the RO and pointing at the shooter. This time it was almost comical. Reports written etc...

Funny thing, same pants, same boots & I always now have dibbs on lane one whenever I go there and the shooter on lane two must be right handed by order of the RO and his boss. I now have the nickname "Serpaleg" there. :lol:
I now refuse to shoot next to anyone using a serpa anywhere. This is why all my holsters 'moo' except for my nylon drop leg.
Blame the equipment and not the shooter? :?

It's the car, not the driver?
----------------
I blame both, but in all my years as a shooter It's never happened with any other holster. It just invites the finger to get too close to the trigger with force too soon. Finger discipline must be learned to the inth degree with a serpa or bad things can happen. Not everyone can do it, even the so called 'trained' and 'trained' they both were.

Thumb release is tried and true. In 30+ years of shooting it has never encouraged me to put my finger on the trigger. Even when I use and open top retention holster my thumb bumps my side as if I were using a thumb release.
 

·
GeePeeDoHolic
Joined
·
6,412 Posts
Is there an older model of Serpa with button over the trigger? My button is right over the slide, which works great because I'm encouraged to put my finger AWAY from the trigger right where it's supposed to be as I draw.

I have one of the paddle CQC models which I like because paddle hugs body closer than a belt configuration, active retention without extra strap, cut-out ("speed cut"?) that makes reholstering and drawing a little faster.

I also like the little belt teeth that are freely adjustable for different width belts.

It's not as concealable as a IWB, but still hugs close enough I can cover with a shirt that's not too small.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,868 Posts
Rugerer said:
Is there an older model of Serpa with button over the trigger? My button is right over the slide, which works great because I'm encouraged to put my finger AWAY from the trigger right where it's supposed to be as I draw.

I have one of the paddle CQC models which I like because paddle hugs body closer than a belt configuration, active retention without extra strap, cut-out ("speed cut"?) that makes reholstering and drawing a little faster.

I also like the little belt teeth that are freely adjustable for different width belts.

It's not as concealable as a IWB, but still hugs close enough I can cover with a shirt that's not too small.
Some folks tend to depress the release button using the tip of their index finger, rather than the pad. This technique, when compounded with an adrenalin dump under stress, has been suspected by some to have possibly caused the user to stick their finger into the trigger guard as the weapon is withdrawn from the holster, but before it is brought up on target.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
938 Posts
We carry them at work; I don't particularly care for them. If you get excited and pull on the gun before you actuate the release, you can jam the release with the tension on the button, the plastic (composite, kydex, whatever) is fairly heavy, and with the platform we have them mounted on, you can fit your entire hand between the holster and your body. They make an acceptable duty holster, IMO, but as a concealment holster, I'd find some leather. (Well, I DID find some leather, but that's my take on the subject.) I work in a fairly clean environment, so I don't have any experience with them jamming, but I will say that we don't use them on the range when we shoot for qualification. For that, we use Safariland plain ol' nylon duty holsters with the thumb break disengaged.

P.S. - I know that doesn't make sense, but virtually nothing the Navy decides to do does. Just a fact of life, folks.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,624 Posts
Puffyfish said:
AV8R said:
Puffyfish said:
ZTC said:
IV been reading some post on other forums and I've noticed alot o post about how the Black Hawk sepras are "deadly". Their main 3 complaints where that the release finger button can become locked when junk gets behind it, the button is to fine a motor skill in a stressful situation and how the button makes it to easy for a accidental discharge. Has anyone here experienced any of the above?
Not just once but twice. Same range different people, same RO. Had to pick pieces of copper jacket & lead from my left leg the first time. Nothing I could not easily dig out but the RO was upset to say the least.
It was timed fire from the draw with multiple lanes, 15 rounds, 20 seconds. Signal to commence fire was given and 'bang' right into the concrete 16" from my left boot. I didn't feel it till I moved my leg once the sequence was done. I raised my pantleg and saw a bit of blood going down my leg from three places. The shooter commenced to freaking out and saying how sorry he was, RO pulled both of us off the line, reports written, 27 8x10 color glossy photos taken and I denied medical treatment. 45 minutes later and three band-aids later I was back on the line finishing up my shoot.

Second time almost the same thing except no frag in the leg as the AD by the shooter happened just behind and to my left into the concrete. I stopped cold, cleared my weapon and backed off the line looking at the RO and pointing at the shooter. This time it was almost comical. Reports written etc...

Funny thing, same pants, same boots & I always now have dibbs on lane one whenever I go there and the shooter on lane two must be right handed by order of the RO and his boss. I now have the nickname "Serpaleg" there. :lol:
I now refuse to shoot next to anyone using a serpa anywhere. This is why all my holsters 'moo' except for my nylon drop leg.
Blame the equipment and not the shooter? :?

It's the car, not the driver?
----------------
I blame both, but in all my years as a shooter It's never happened with any other holster. It just invites the finger to get too close to the trigger with force too soon. Finger discipline must be learned to the inth degree with a serpa or bad things can happen. Not everyone can do it, even the so called 'trained' and 'trained' they both were.

Thumb release is tried and true. In 30+ years of shooting it has never encouraged me to put my finger on the trigger. Even when I use and open top retention holster my thumb bumps my side as if I were using a thumb release.
I use the Serpa and it has never encouraged me to put my finger on the trigger. But, I've practiced a lot with it, and to the point where muscle memory keeps my finger on the slide. Cars are dangerous, too, in the hands of someone who's not trained. I still believe in personal responsibility... I choose to drive carefully, I choose to wear the Serpa carefully. Ever see the warning in snowblower manuals that warns against using it on the roof your house to remove snow? Can't fault the snowblower, can you?

I don't think the thumb break is the be all end all to NDs. I'm certain there have been many NDs by people who've removed their firearm from a thumb break holster only to later (a second, half a second?) put their booger hook right on the trigger when they shouldn't have. It all comes down to training and responsibility. Not everyone is going to be as disciplined as you, I, and most others here. But, please don't blame the object, especially since it performs as intended.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,182 Posts
I see your point, maybe one ought to be required to have proper training to use one. :roll: :lol:

Oddly enough both times the users were very well trained and certified in my incidents but were both 'new' to the holster. Stuff happens I guess. I'm just making sure it does not happen to me again. Damn scary I tell ya.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,624 Posts
Puffyfish said:
I see your point, maybe one ought to be required to have proper training to use one. :roll: :lol:

Oddly enough both times the users were very well trained and certified in my incidents but were both 'new' to the holster. Stuff happens I guess. I'm just making sure it does not happen to me again. Damn scary I tell ya.
Just think of all the yahoos with simple slide holsters who shoot the floor, themselves, friends, and people like you. Well trained with a new holster is sort of an oxymoron, no?
 

·
Seasteading Aficionado
Joined
·
44,896 Posts
I've never come close to touching the trigger when hitting the button on the Serpa. I think its kind of a ridiculous thing to be worried about.

IMHO, you'd have to be a complete goober, or really uncoordinated to do something like that. I've never come close to doing something like that. In fact, it keeps my index finger along side the firearm as I draw, until I get the firearm pointed in the direction of my target, and my index finger moves towards the trigger.

I practice drawing and firing out of the BHS all the time and I've never come close to putting my finger on the trigger during my draw until the firearm was on target.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top