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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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I'm surprised that this is an issue with OS's using ASLR (Address Space Layout Randomization). It would seem like that would require more than a little malicious javascript on a web page to exploit this speculative execution flaw of the CPU architecture defect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This article covers what is know at this time fairly well. Going to be fun to see where this goes.

Excerpt from link would indicate something is afoot.

"The CPU-level flaw will have a major impact on cloud computing providers, including Amazon EC2, Azure, and Google CE. Microsoft has announced that its Azure cloud will undergo maintenance and reboots on January 10, at which time it will reportedly patch the vulnerability. [URL='https://twitter.com/jschauma/status/941447173245370368]Amazon has issued a warning email[/URL] that pointed to a major security update rolling out this Friday."

https://www.neowin.net/news/securit...l-cpus-could-result-in-a-huge-performance-hit
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This

"Then there's this -- it appears AMD's processors are not subject to this problem -- and it's been strongly hinted at by AMD that this is because they don't speculatively start execution of an instruction before determining whether it will result in a page fault. A common complaint is that AMD's chips are somewhat slower than Intel's for "equivalent" clock speed and capability (generation, etc.) Is the reason they were slower that Intel knowingly cheated and, if so, what implication does that have across the computing universe, especially in places where security is considered important like, oh, pretty-much everywhere?"
 

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This

"Then there's this -- it appears AMD's processors are not subject to this problem -- and it's been strongly hinted at by AMD that this is because they don't speculatively start execution of an instruction before determining whether it will result in a page fault. A common complaint is that AMD's chips are somewhat slower than Intel's for "equivalent" clock speed and capability (generation, etc.) Is the reason they were slower that Intel knowingly cheated and, if so, what implication does that have across the computing universe, especially in places where security is considered important like, oh, pretty-much everywhere?"
It does present a fresh look at the "inferior" architecture of the AMD CPUs. Of course, the conspiracy side of me thinks that, with all of these OS patches coming out and the related slow-down of the machines, it will seems like a great time for people to look to upgrade their computers due to the diminished performance. After all, it isn't like Intel or Microsoft can slow down your computer because the battery is old....
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The AMD thing really Pi..es me off. The patch while not needed on AMD stuff will slow down the system just like the Intel stuff. Apparently from what I have read the current patches do not distinguish between the two CPU vendors.Big question is how much of a hit will just plain everyday computers take. I can see Win7 users being able to block any update relating to this issue but not that thing called 10. Could Intel be up to their old crap like paying off Dell back in the day to use P4's even though at the time AMD had a superior product. That little stunt and others cost Intel a few billion. They lost me when AMD came out with the first 1GHZ CPU. That thing idled at 63 Celsius.This thing will end up in the courts with The lawyers making a killing.
 

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I have an 8 year old Dell desktop with an AMD processor, running Win7. It has always been really slow. I have always wondered why, and have tried and tried to find what the problem is, to no avail. I have improved it somewhat recently by uninstalling some of the invasive anti-virus crap I had on it (AdAware). That helped, a tiny bit. But it still is quite ridiculous, and one of these days, I am gonna get so pissed that I will just throw it in the trash. The only reason I still have it is because my printer is downstairs too, and the only way to print anything is to send it to that computer (via email or a thumb drive), go downstairs, open the file and print it.

I don't feel like going downstairs to look up exactly which AMD processor it has, but at the time I bought it, it was a hotrod AMD. I have regretted that decision ever since. And I'm pretty sure it is the processor, as I have tried every other thing in the world to speed it up.

When I first read about this Intel issue, all I could think was, "Oh great - that Y2K flim-flam crap, all over again".
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have an 8 year old Dell desktop with an AMD processor, running Win7. It has always been really slow. I have always wondered why, and have tried and tried to find what the problem is, to no avail. I have improved it somewhat recently by uninstalling some of the invasive anti-virus crap I had on it (AdAware). That helped, a tiny bit. But it still is quite ridiculous, and one of these days, I am gonna get so pissed that I will just throw it in the trash. The only reason I still have it is because my printer is downstairs too, and the only way to print anything is to send it to that computer (via email or a thumb drive), go downstairs, open the file and print it.

I don't feel like going downstairs to look up exactly which AMD processor it has, but at the time I bought it, it was a hotrod AMD. I have regretted that decision ever since. And I'm pretty sure it is the processor, as I have tried every other thing in the world to speed it up.

When I first read about this Intel issue, all I could think was, "Oh great - that Y2K flim-flam crap, all over again".
Please be aware that I would not criticize another Man's purchase decision but AMD on a laptop is sort of like a 1911 that is chambered for a sub-sonic .22. I am a solid supporter Of AMD desktop CPU's but the laptop versions should never have been released into the wild.That may change with the new AMD technology. Your laptop was doomed to being slow when it left the factory.The current issue reported in this Thread while maybe being an issue with your Laptop has nothing to do with it being slow.It was born that way. The dirty little secret relating to laptop purchases is to never buy a new one. Go to New Egg or Amazon and checkout the used ones that have been on corporate lease for two years. You can get a good one that sold for $1500.00 two or three years ago for less than $400.00. As always everything I have said here is open to one's own interpretation as well it should be.
 

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It is the fix that will slow down things. They must stop speculative execution on Intel CPUs and this presents a possible 30% performance hit. The big boys like AWS are getting new Intel CPUs to eliminate the threat and performance hit of the fix. Intel would like you think AMD CPUs are vulnerable as well, they are not. Less influential organizations like mine will have to use updated OS kernels that will take the performance hit. Devastating for existing installations running near capacity. Major fallout to come.
 

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The big boys like AWS are getting new Intel CPUs to eliminate the threat and performance hit of the fix.
So how do they get by the fix if AMD (which doesn't have the issue) can't? I thought the fix was a software patch to the OS that would be passed out to everyone, not only those that don't update their intel CPUs to the latest just fixed CPUs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So how do they get by the fix if AMD (which doesn't have the issue) can't? I thought the fix was a software patch to the OS that would be passed out to everyone, not only those that don't update their intel CPUs to the latest just fixed CPUs.
If you have the time go to the links below. The first explains the mess at this point fairly well. The second is early returns on the hit your system may or may not take. Bear in mine that the CPU tested is an newer model. I do believe that it may give a fair assessment of what one may be dealing with as far as performance hits or not. This entire event is still in it's early stage as far as the consumer is concerned.It is interesting that the Intel CEO sold a bunch of stock right after this issue became know to him earlier last year. Could have been a planned sale or may not have been.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12214/understanding-meltdown-and-spectre

https://www.techspot.com/article/1554-meltdown-flaw-cpu-performance-windows/
 

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I'm sure the executives and cpu designers have known about this for a long long time. Too obvious from the design and simulation tools they use for the cpu microcode. This is my son's take anyway (he designs ARM and intel based OS / Apps / and device drivers).

The who-knew-it-when issue may nail intel sorta like the Volkswagen smog test evasion software that was known and supported from the top for many years. The performance increase from this architecture was no doubt worth it for the price/performance in the marketplace. The only surprise is that it took this long to be discovered (wonder how long the CIA has known about and exploited it?)
 
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