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SongDogSniper said:
270sniper said:
drtybykr said:
My twelve year old came home from school the other day, and told me he got the highest grade in the class on his midterm, but had to take the test over because the principal told the teacher he was unhappy with the grades of the class. :sly:
my son had to re-take a test 2 weeks ago because he made the highest grade in the class.
Nothing new unfortunately. Has happened to me in college, as well as in (believe it or not) a LE academy. Really rubs me the wrong way when I bust my butt to study HARD for an exam on a difficult topic, but the rest of the class obviously does not take it as seriously. Three quarters fail, a couple of others and myself do well, and the damn exam gets thrown out because obviously there was something wrong with it, and we all have to take a "revised" test!
maybe its a part of this "no child left behind garbage". instead of helping the lower percentage of the class so they can keep up with the others, they just bring the others down because it would be unfair to make the lower percentage try harder.
 

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Hunley said:
Hack Causality said:

1. America is on the only major industrialized country in the world in which a free appropriate public education is a right to all children between the ages of 5 and 19 for regular education and 4 and 21 for special education.

What? All first-world countries provide some degree of free education, and is often equal in years to that of the US, including Finland, France, Germany, India, Mexico, Russia, Slovenia, Britain, China, and Canada.
They do provide SOME degree. HOWEVER, we are the ONLY major industrialized country where it is a RIGHT. Just like freedom of speech, privacy, and freedom of assembly, all American students have the right to free appropriate public education. Free as in there is no cost. Appropriate as in the school has to provide the least restrictive environment for the students, even if that means a school system has to send the student to a private institution. These are the rights as determined by legislation and SCOTUS.

It is NOT a right in the countries you listed. As such, it is much easier for those schools to remove problems students. Maybe that scares some of the students straight. Maybe by weeding out the bad apples they make the good ones shine and doom the bad ones to mundane non-skilled labor. Either way, they don't have the burden placed on them to take away that right for the students.
Is compulsory [s:28d9b8fh]government[/s:28d9b8fh] public [s:28d9b8fh]indoctrination[/s:28d9b8fh] education really a right? You know its one of the tenets of Marxism don't you? Government education didn't do me any favors. It's a joke. Mostly felt like prison. If I'd spent all that time getting a real education, no telling what I'd be capable of today, but no, most of what I know and do came after government school. I feel handicapped and depraved of real knowledge. Government school only prepared me to slouch, do the minimum, obey, trust government, trust authority, and don't get in trouble. I had a few good teachers here and there and I thank them, they laid the seeds of real knowledge, but for the most part, all I can say is "We don't need no education".
 

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270sniper said:
SongDogSniper said:
270sniper said:
drtybykr said:
My twelve year old came home from school the other day, and told me he got the highest grade in the class on his midterm, but had to take the test over because the principal told the teacher he was unhappy with the grades of the class. :sly:
my son had to re-take a test 2 weeks ago because he made the highest grade in the class.
Nothing new unfortunately. Has happened to me in college, as well as in (believe it or not) a LE academy. Really rubs me the wrong way when I bust my butt to study HARD for an exam on a difficult topic, but the rest of the class obviously does not take it as seriously. Three quarters fail, a couple of others and myself do well, and the damn exam gets thrown out because obviously there was something wrong with it, and we all have to take a "revised" test!
maybe its a part of this "no child left behind garbage". instead of helping the lower percentage of the class so they can keep up with the others, they just bring the others down because it would be unfair to make the lower percentage try harder.
I think that has a lot to do with it. When my son re took the test, the teacher passed out a "study guide" that was an answer key.

All about getting the govt. funding.
 

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Ultimately the fault resides with the parents. The parents should have been ambitious enough to attain a job that would allow them to afford a superior private education for their children instead of relying on the evil government to do that job.
After all, the countries stomping our ass in education did so because of their predominately privately schooled pupils............right?
:lol:

No child left behind.....who's idea was that?
 

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drtybykr said:
270sniper said:
SongDogSniper said:
270sniper said:
drtybykr said:
My twelve year old came home from school the other day, and told me he got the highest grade in the class on his midterm, but had to take the test over because the principal told the teacher he was unhappy with the grades of the class. :sly:
my son had to re-take a test 2 weeks ago because he made the highest grade in the class.
Nothing new unfortunately. Has happened to me in college, as well as in (believe it or not) a LE academy. Really rubs me the wrong way when I bust my butt to study HARD for an exam on a difficult topic, but the rest of the class obviously does not take it as seriously. Three quarters fail, a couple of others and myself do well, and the damn exam gets thrown out because obviously there was something wrong with it, and we all have to take a "revised" test!
maybe its a part of this "no child left behind garbage". instead of helping the lower percentage of the class so they can keep up with the others, they just bring the others down because it would be unfair to make the lower percentage try harder.
I think that has a lot to do with it. When my son re took the test, the teacher passed out a "study guide" that was an answer key.

All about getting the govt. funding.
i think the "no child left behind" thing is just run completely backward. i think they should call it "no child ahead".
 

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JiG said:
Hunley said:
Is compulsory [s:t7twbkdy]government[/s:t7twbkdy] public [s:t7twbkdy]indoctrination[/s:t7twbkdy] education really a right? You know its one of the tenets of Marxism don't you? Government education didn't do me any favors. It's a joke. Mostly felt like prison. If I'd spent all that time getting a real education, no telling what I'd be capable of today, but no, most of what I know and do came after government school. I feel handicapped and depraved of real knowledge. Government school only prepared me to slouch, do the minimum, obey, trust government, trust authority, and don't get in trouble. I had a few good teachers here and there and I thank them, they laid the seeds of real knowledge, but for the most part, all I can say is "We don't need no education".
I concur. Government education didn't do me any favors, either. My high school definitely felt like a prison. College had more freedom, but it also seemed to come with more liberal indoctrination. I also agree about doing the minimum, obey, trust government and authority and don't get in trouble, as well.

The few good teacher I did have, I thought were half-crazy for telling me to question what I was being taught. I didn't have a clue what they really meant at the time. It wasn't til college I started to question things, and I'm glad I did.

Like I've said earlier, public education's purpose is nothing more than to prepare a populace to fill out the paper work, run the machines in the factories, to go home at night and watch Dancing with the Stars and American Idol, pay your taxes, believe everything the government tells us, and to never-ever question the ruling class. You know, be a good little obedient [s:t7twbkdy]subject[/s:t7twbkdy] citizen.
 

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EJR914 said:
JiG said:
Hunley said:
Is compulsory [s:2fth2afz]government[/s:2fth2afz] public [s:2fth2afz]indoctrination[/s:2fth2afz] education really a right? You know its one of the tenets of Marxism don't you? Government education didn't do me any favors. It's a joke. Mostly felt like prison. If I'd spent all that time getting a real education, no telling what I'd be capable of today, but no, most of what I know and do came after government school. I feel handicapped and depraved of real knowledge. Government school only prepared me to slouch, do the minimum, obey, trust government, trust authority, and don't get in trouble. I had a few good teachers here and there and I thank them, they laid the seeds of real knowledge, but for the most part, all I can say is "We don't need no education".
I concur. Government education didn't do me any favors, either. My high school definitely felt like a prison. College had more freedom, but it also seemed to come with more liberal indoctrination. I also agree about doing the minimum, obey, trust government and authority and don't get in trouble, as well.

The few good teacher I did have, I thought were half-crazy for telling me to question what I was being taught. I didn't have a clue what they really meant at the time. It wasn't til college I started to question things, and I'm glad I did.

Like I've said earlier, public education's purpose is nothing more than to prepare a populace to fill out the paper work, run the machines in the factories, to go home at night and watch Dancing with the Stars and American Idol, pay your taxes, believe everything the government tells us, and to never-ever question the ruling class. You know, be a good little obedient [s:2fth2afz]subject[/s:2fth2afz] citizen.
You've got it... "good little citizen"... I don't need to reference anything more than the video MP posted in the other thread.... even though they cherry picked the stupidest Americans for the video, every last one was "educated" by our government.
 

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My Grandma went school only 6 years from 1921 to 1927. She learned how to write, how to add, substract, divide and multiply. She learned by heart the little Catholic catechism, she knows to calculate fractions and she also learned geography and History. She also learned the simple rule of three:
a + b = 1
a = 1 - b

and the complicated rule of three (cross-multiplications:

a/b = c/d that is also ad=bc that is also a = bc /d

I worked with a bunch of US high school graduates and they can't multiply of divide without a calculator. They have no idea how to do fractions. They have no idea of their History and they don't know if Europe is a continent or a town. And when you talk to them about the rule of three, they think you are talking about something as complicated as the theory of the relativity.

And by the way, she had to walk 6 miles to go to school EACH day. sun, rain , snow, cold (and I am talking about -40 degrees cold here, not nice Georgia cool temperature.)

My wife works in a Research center. 95% of the research staff is Chinese or Indian. The other 5% is mostly Europeans and there is 1 or 2 american.

I knew America was a country of ignorant people when between 2003 and 2005 I had many IT positions to fill and for the life of me, I could not find one American guy to hire. I ended up hiring 2 Indians, one Chinese and one Pakistani naturalized... In fact, it is not true. I hired one American and he got fired in less than 3 months because he was incompetent and his work ethic was bad.
 

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kestak said:
My Grandma went school only 6 years from 1921 to 1927. She learned how to write, how to add, substract, divide and multiply. She learned by heart the little Catholic catechism, she knows to calculate fractions and she also learned geography and History. She also learned the simple rule of three:
a + b = 1
a = 1 - b

and the complicated rule of three (cross-multiplications:

a/b = c/d that is also ad=bc that is also a = bc /d

I worked with a bunch of US high school graduates and they can't multiply of divide without a calculator. They have no idea how to do fractions. They have no idea of their History and they don't know if Europe is a continent or a town. And when you talk to them about the rule of three, they think you are talking about something as complicated as the theory of the relativity.

And by the way, she had to walk 6 miles to go to school EACH day. sun, rain , snow, cold (and I am talking about -40 degrees cold here, not nice Georgia cool temperature.)

My wife works in a Research center. 95% of the research staff is Chinese or Indian. The other 5% is mostly Europeans and there is 1 or 2 american.

I knew America was a country of ignorant people when between 2003 and 2005 I had many IT positions to fill and for the life of me, I could not find one American guy to hire. I ended up hiring 2 Indians, one Chinese and one Pakistani naturalized... In fact, it is not true. I hired one American and he got fired in less than 3 months because he was incompetent and his work ethic was bad.
You weren't paying enough. If you want good American talent, you have to pay for it. However; if you got your job done with 2 Indians, 1 Chinese, and 1 Pakistani, then what does having an American matter? At least you were here in a country where you could run your business and find help. What other countries can you do business in where if you cannot find help amongst the majority population that you can hire 2 Indians, 1 Chinese, and 1 Pakistani?

Even though you are right and there's a ton of ignorant people in this country, I wouldn't talk too much smack about it.... I've met FAR too many illiterate Canadians. Our education system has to be a bit better because at least most of our people can read even if they can't spell anything if their lives depended on it.
 

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You are missing the point

Education in canada is bad now too. But not as bad as here. I was refering to education 60 years ago before the liberals screwed it up.

I had many jobs and they were six figures jobs.
 

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groats said:
Hunley said:
Maybe by weeding out the bad apples they make the good ones shine and doom the bad ones to mundane non-skilled labor. Either way, they don't have the burden placed on them to take away that right for the students.
And maybe that's part of the problem: "mundane unskilled labor".

Public education continues to teach an ever more narrow skill set.

What, exactly, is wrong with being a good - let's say - Harley mechanic? Lumber salesman? Plumber?

Doesn't a society NEED people who do those jobs?
Do they require a college education?
A kid who does poorly at algebra, poetry and history might just be far better off if he were out of school and apprenticing with a
carpenter, plumber, mechanic...

At least he'd be interested, and by the time his peers had finished their BS degrees, he'd have been doing something useful and earning a salary for several years.
I think Japan has something like this. It may also be why the statistics comparing Japanese high school/college students to Americans' counterparts are skewed, since the lower part of their bell curve is removed around age thirteen or so.
 

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Xiclotl said:
http://www.ajc.com/news/quarter-of-georgians-fail-790969.html

headline: Quarter of Georgians fail Army entry test
I passed!!!! :righton:

Now , if I just wasn't so fat and old......
 

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Xiclotl said:
http://www.ajc.com/news/quarter-of-georgians-fail-790969.html

headline: Quarter of Georgians fail Army entry test
Seriously? This is news?

When I came back and helped my Recruiter I saw how bad this was. I actually saw someone score an 11 on the ASVAB. I don't see how, but then again I scored the other end of the spectrum.
 
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