You Don't Need An AR-15 To Defend Yourself

Discussion in 'In the News' started by moe mensale, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    How many politicians, cops, "experts" and wise beyond their years child morons (David Hogg) have repeatedly told us we don't need an AR-15 - and 30 round mags - to defend ourselves? Yeah, lots of them. Because they're, you know, so full of ............ wisdom. A guy in Florida is glad he didn't heed their advice.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/flori...ills-2-home-invaders-in-gunfight_3000068.html
    Seeing their mug shots, I would have armed myself too, in anticipation. It's a good bet none of them were pre-law students at the local college. Hell, I would have never even opened the door in the first place.
     
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  2. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Excellent use of the AR-15 there, as is termed officially by the government as a personal defense weapon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019

  3. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Good story, good outcome.
    But, does this news article show a "need" for an AR-15 and a 30-round magazine?
    Out of the 4 burglars, how many were armed? Was it just one, or more than one?
    How many rounds did the bad guys' have available in their gun(s) total?
    How many shots did the home defender take to win this gunfight, kill 2, and drive the others away?
    The article doesn't say.
    He could have done it with two shots. Shoot one, shoot another, and then watch the last two flee.
    He could have used a Joe Biden special-- a double-barreled 12-bore shotgun!
    We can't say, from the OP's linked article, that an AR type rifle was "needed."
    All we can say is that an AR weapon was successfully used.

    The last time I squashed a bug with something other than my hands or feet, it was with a hardcover book of over 1000 pages. A big volume, that probably weighed 3 pounds.
    Now, does that prove that a person needs 3 pounds of densely-packed paper to squish a Palmetto bug or carpenter ant? No. All we can say is that the book can be used in that role.
     
  4. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    "Need" is a relative term. With four intruders, regardless of the specific number that were armed, you need some serious firepower (and luck). Semi-automatic rifle, semi-automatic shotgun, something...
     
  5. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Here's a NYC store owner who, back in 2009, used a 20-year old shotgun with buckshot to kill two armed robbers, and wound two others out of the group of 4 robbers.
    The article doesn't say what kind of "shotgun" it was, other than it had been purchased 20 years prior (late 1980s that would be). Since New York has had its own State-level assault weapons ban since 1992 or 1993 (predating the federal AWB) and since NYC doesn't approve ANY "combat" or "tactical" shotguns for private citizens, I'd assume the shotgun in question was either a double-barrel or a SPORTING pump or semi-auto. Maybe a Remington 1100, or Browning A5. Magazine would be a non-detachable, non-extended tubular mag that holds 4 or 5 shells.

    And the gun-wielding robber dies. Another robber dies. Two more run off, bleeding, and get caught out on the street. The only "good guy" who was hurt was a store clerk who was BEATEN (not shot) by the thugs.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cr...day-fatally-shooting-robbers-article-1.395527

    So, this is anecdotal evidence that you don't "need" a gun of the type that would be affected by an "assault weapon" bans proposed by anti-gun politicians.
     
  6. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    Bottom line is the AR 15 style rife is one of the best self/home/others defense firearm. If you actually need 1 shot or 100 shots the AR 15 style rifle is the firearm that can deliver in any case. Try that with your snub nose .38 or your double barrel 12 gauge and see how far you get.
     
  7. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Why didn't he go out on the back porch and fire 2 blasts into the air? Just like the guy in NYC should have done. If Joe had informed and trained him properly.

    Nemo
     
  8. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    What is the point of this? Are we looking for a situation of where only an AR 15 modeled rifle will provide sufficient defensive capabilities? There is no situation where one and only one model of rifle will meet a specific set of home defense circumstances. There are, however, plenty of examples where an AR 15 proved to be a suitable defense and likely better than utilizing a pistol.

    I don't know why we're debating this; the AR 15 platform provides a good platform for self-defensive purposes. Additionally, it is one of the most popular rifle platforms in the US.

    Do you need an AR 15? No, but you don't need color TVs, cell phones, cars, etc. So the argument is pointless.
     
  9. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    I need one. If only for my personal gratification issues. I can do without the color tv, cell phone, and car. But I NEED my AR and truck.

    Nemo
     
  10. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Out of your two posts, that was the only thing you said that was worthwhile. You should have stopped there and called it a day. But no, you have to go on a bloviation marathon. Whatever points you were attempting to make were useless and irrelevant.

    Jeff and Walther don't like your posts either.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    From this day forward you will be referred to as The Paddle.
    One of those big paddles that are used in waste treatment plants to stir the crap you come up with.:mrgreen:
     
  12. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Yes it does show the 30 round mag need. My assessment of the info in that article expresses a requirement of that size magazine, not just a need.

    Nemo
     
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  13. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I'm just saying that while I like AR carbines and arm-braced pistols and SBR's for home defense, the news article accompanying the original post does not support the title of the thread. There is no "need" shown.

    A "need" means you couldn't do without it --nothing less would fill the role successfully.
     
  14. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    47E7291F-5B7F-47B2-9234-166DCE50A480.jpeg A guy using an AR to defend his home doesn't prove that he needed that particular type of weapon to get the job done.

    Just like the fact that some guy uses a Toyota Tacoma pickup truck to carry a single Yeti cooler full of ice does not mean that you "need" to have a medium size pick up truck to transport a cooler ! Smaller vehicles that are not pick up trucks and (perhaps not even SUVs) can still carry a Yeti cooler.
     

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  15. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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  16. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    Well, I certainly hope that we helped the larger society by debating and defining the already-defined meaning of the word "need" and, as a result, people will cease to use the word figuratively instead of literally.

    You're welcome everyone!
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    The thread's title supports my opening statement in the OP. Which leads into the article.

    Whether the article does or doesn't support the title isn't for you to decide. You've not been appointed arbiter of thread titles. Or anything else. Quite thinking your approval and/or editorial comment is required for anyone to post something others might find useful and/or interesting. Stop muddying up the waters.
     
  18. DKW

    DKW Active Member

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    My thoughts on GS post.

    Based on your questions, how would you ever "prove" you need an AR-15 vs any other gun?
     
  19. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    AR's typically use 30 round magazines. So any gun fight with a good guy firing more rounds than a typical defensive handgun would-- let's say 15 shots--- would be strong evidence that having the AR was "necessary" in that case.

    AR's, like any centerfire rifle firing a bottleneched round will usually penetrate soft body armor. So any incident where the bad guys were wearing soft body armor is a case where you could say an AR is necessary.

    AR-15 carbines, like most other shoulder fired long guns, have an effective range of at least four times that of a handgun. So any incident where a good guy engages in gun play with bad guys that are more than 30 yards away would be a case where you can say an AR is necessary.

    A .223 rifle using lightweight varmint bullets that are made to expand is probably the safest home defense weapon from the perspective of overpenetration through interior home walls. So any incident where innocent people were put in danger by being directly behind the wall that a bad guy was standing in front of would be a situation where you could say having a semi auto 223 caliber rifle is "necessary."
     
  20. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    Is it about proving a need or proving a usefulness? The AR15 style firearm is one of the most useful home/self/others defensive firearm available. It is not a matter of need. You do not need to eat a steak to survive. You can live on peanut butter and water. However a steak is also a very useful source of protein and taste better. People can and do hunt with AR15 style rifles and it is also one of the better rifles for this activity as well. You don't NEED an AR15 for this but it sure helps to have it. the fact is the AR15 rifle has legitimate multiple uses to which it is more suited than other firearms available.

    PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals...
     
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