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I watch the watchers
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There are a couple forums where I hang out (BTDT guys), where anything from FrontSight is looked at with a fairly jaundiced eye.
 

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I'm kind of a big deal
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:shock: :screwy:

No way, man. That is the stupidest thing I have ever seen!
 

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Here's the money quote:
Could a Front Sight Combat Master or Range Master make these shots? Yes, they could, but would only attempt such a shot in a true, life-and-death situation.
Now I would change it thusly:
Could a sufficiently experienced shooter make these shots? Yes, they could, but would only attempt such a shot [with a live hostage down-range] in a true, life-and-death situation.
And I concur.
 

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That guy sent in those videos because he is or was applyng for a job there at Front Site. I really do not believe that he will be using students for that type of training at least for civilians.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Signal 69 said:
That guy sent in those videos because he is or was applyng for a job there at Front Site. I really do not believe that he will be using students for that type of training at least for civilians.
Do military guys ever do stuff like that?
 

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I know of no military or police that train this way. I think the biggest reason is there are VERY FEW in the military or police ranks that could make this type of shot without injuring the the guy. I have been to training where shooting like this came up. The instructor demonstrated that if you carry a gun to protect your loved ones this type of shot could be required. The situation was different and the demo was one instructor shooting a target next to an another instructor. The students were only spectators in a safe area. This type of training is important for two reasons. If you are next to the target you must have the confidence and nerves of steel to stand there while your partner takes the shots. The shooter must have the skill, nerves mental awareness to make the shoots with confidence. I have learned that a sight picture on the head of a real live human being can be unsettling and give the shooter all types of issues to think about.

Are you confident enough to make that type of shot next to your spouse?
How do you know if you have never tried or practiced a simular type shot?
The majority of shooters are not capable of making this type of shot.
I am capable and have proven it a thousand times in practice on paper under simulated stress. But when I got a sight picture on a real human it all changed and many thoughts went thru my head. It was a learning experience to say the least.

I agree this is dangerous and I don't teach it. I feel it is an unnessecary risk to let students do this. Maybe a highly trained SWAT or SF team but not civilians.
No, I will not name the instructor or organization where I learned this.
I thought is was a valuable learning/training experience.
 

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Some of the "special" groups have done stuff like this. They don't necessarily train that way, Nor would I presume that they would train with live people that close to target. However, they have put live people in the room and entered it with live ammo and ran a drill. Even did it with a President once.

As far as what that guy was doing........stupid.
 

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Lawyer and Gun Activist
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Obviously this is way too dangerous for practice / demonstration purposes.

Now in a real-life situation, where you have to use deadly force to save innocent lives, I suppose you might want to attempt some of these shots IF you are confident of your skills AND confident that if you don't try, the innocent person will get killed by the bad guy anyway.
If the bad guy is taken down but the hostage is wounded, that's bad but that doesn't mean the risk was not worth taking, and it's still not the worst possible outcome.

The Spanish-speaking instructor who did the shooting in this video looks like an incredible marksman and skilled at the use of firearms in combat. I'd be happy to have him on the SWAT team in my town. I have confidence that he can do what needs to be done. I could not shoot that fast, that accurately. I'm especially amazed at the AK-47 full auto burts from the hip, unaimed, with the volunteer standing right between the two targets!
 

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Here's an idea: to re-create the "risk" of hitting a hostage target, put a $100 bill in a balloon and blow it up.

Attach the $100 balloon to the hostage target. Use a couple balloons, maybe one on the head area, and two more on the body. Total cash at risk $300.

Underneath the hostage target, have a metal pan with some sawdust. Sprinkle it with lighter fluid and light it.
Then commence the hostage-rescue shooting drill.

If someone pops a balloon, the shooter's money falls into the fire.

P.S. And if you fail to neutralize the bad guys in the allotted time, your money is not returned to you.
Instead, it's donated to charity. How's that for a high-stakes drill that will make your palms sweat?
 

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samman23 said:
Signal 69 said:
That guy sent in those videos because he is or was applyng for a job there at Front Site. I really do not believe that he will be using students for that type of training at least for civilians.
Do military guys ever do stuff like that?
Your average grunt (Marine Infantry) does not do this type of training. Marine Special Operations Command (Marsoc) formerly (Recon or Force Recon) that was depending on who your boss was, would do some of this. I have seen SAS officers sit in the fun house amongst dummy targest and there men come in and take brain shots hitting all the dummies but the officer. They did not let us do this. They did let us stand next to a target with another marine on the other side and our team mates shoot at the target that was in the middle of us also got us in a group and shoot to our left and right so that we would know what is was like to hear a bullet wiz by our heads. They called it the angry bee.
 

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Absolutely idiotic. :screwy:

I don't care who the shooter was, taking a risk like that, regardless of how good a shot you are, is, at best, highly irresponsible.
 

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[/quote]

Do military guys ever do stuff like that?[/quote]

Absolutely not, I spent six years in the Army Rangers with 1st Battalion, shot with some of the best shooters that the military has, along with civilian trainers. Never would we place a live human target in front of a paper target and fire live rounds. That is pure stupidity. Who cares if you can make the shot? You can do the same thing with another paper target or a dummy. Oh by the way those of you on here who think special operations guys do this, you are wrong. Any videos you have seen where live hostages are being used, there is no live ammo in use, we are using sim rounds, which do sting quite a bit, but are not deadly.
 

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gunsmoker said:
Here's an idea: to re-create the "risk" of hitting a hostage target, put a $100 bill in a balloon and blow it up.

Attach the $100 balloon to the hostage target. Use a couple balloons, maybe one on the head area, and two more on the body. Total cash at risk $300.

Underneath the hostage target, have a metal pan with some sawdust. Sprinkle it with lighter fluid and light it.
Then commence the hostage-rescue shooting drill.

If someone pops a balloon, the shooter's money falls into the fire.

P.S. And if you fail to neutralize the bad guys in the allotted time, your money is not returned to you.
Instead, it's donated to charity. How's that for a high-stakes drill that will make your palms sweat?
I like that idea, I'll have to share that with some of my Army friends who are still in.
 

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I know of a trainer locally that I have seen, first hand, stand down range, next to a target (within 3 feet) and instruct a novice shooter to fire live rounds at the target with a hand gun. 9mm in the case I witnessed.

This was the one thing during the day that I had problems with. That was a significant problem for me personally for more than one reason. :screwy:
 

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Die Hard GCO Recruiter
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:shock: WOW just stupid, just stupid!!!!! :shock:
 

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I was thinking the "hostage" has to have balls the size of those on an elephant and made from solid brass. Then they whip out a freaking shotgun and do one. Holy moly. Do blue whales have balls?
Wait.. maybe it's not that the balls are large.. but the brain is small.
 

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The looniest one in the video is the guy standing next to the target hoping not to get killed. That guy needs his head examined. I work in a mental hospital and I guarantee you that not one of the people I treated today would do this.
 

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Seasteading Aficionado
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My only hope was that a stray shot from the AK would take off that guys nuts during full auto fire so that he could never infect the rest of our population with his stupidity.

That was the most painful thing to watch, ever. Why would you even risk it?

As Gunsmoker has said, there are ways to put pressure on yourself that do not involved real human life. This is absurd.
 

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i saw the title and immediately thought "plaxico burriss", lol
 
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