Georgiapacking.org banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
6F355CAD-696A-41AD-BE90-14CB81950BC7.jpeg
482B5DF3-710E-4984-A252-8459383CA1AD.jpeg
What's better range / plinking feed for an AR rifle with a 20" barrel and a low-power scope:

Wolf or Tula ( Tulammo )?

I see from sites like "lucky gunner" and "ammo seek" that you can get these steel cased, bimetallic bullet, imported brands of ammo for only $.20 per round-- basically $200 for a case of 1000.

It seems all American- branded ammo is over $.30 around even if it is also steel cased. Brass cased military surplus ammo is also over $.30 a round, and it's all 55 or 62 grain.

With Wolf and Tula, I can get 75 grain open tip (match-style) bullet loads for only a few pennies more --maybe $.22 per round.

If the accuracy of the 75 grain stuff is good enough out of my 1:9 twist barrel, I would prefer it over the 55 grain loads, because I would occasionally shoot it out to 600 yards.

So, do any of y'all have experience with Wolf and Tula ammo shooting them from the same gun, from the same shooting bench, at the same range, under the same atmospheric conditions, and comparing the group sizes?

Have any of you tested Wolf or Tula 223 ammo with those extra heavy bullets like 77 grains in weight?
How did they compare accuracy wise to the other loads? And what distances did you shoot them from?

P.S. I don't need or expect very tight groups with any of this ammo. 2.5 minute-of-angle would be OK with me. I've used foreign military surplus ammo in other calibers that wouldn't do any better than 3 MOA. If I could keep all my shots in a 7" or 8" inch group at 300 yards I think that would be fun and satisfying.
 

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
1BE3C272-A9DC-4108-9C25-3019E1B8F227.jpeg
For anybody who says an AR rifle deserves to be fed high quality ammo so I can shoot sub minute of angle groups, keep in mind that my goal would only be to shoot a bunches of 10's and 9's at a high power rifle match out to 600 yards.

The 600 yard NRA approved rifle target has a 10 ring diameter of 12 inches (2 MOA), but the nine ring extends out to 18 inches, which is 3 MOA at that distance).

If I keep my 10 or 20 shot group all within the 9-ring or better, by random probability half of those bullets will also hit the 10 rings or better. A few will hit the X ring. So you can get a good score with 2.5 MOA performance in an NRA or CMP highpower rifle match. (You won't "win" with that many nines, but you could come close.)
 

·
Man of Myth and Legend
Joined
·
13,672 Posts
I have used the Wolf, 55 grain stuff several times. Several hundred rounds each time. Its a bit more dirty ammo and needs a heavy deep cleaning afterwards but it works for me.

Accuracy may be a bit less, but then it may not be. I usually get around 3-4 inch groups of 5 at 200 off sandbags with iron sights.

It can be picky on the mags it likes and some of mine work well with brass casing but not the steel stuff.

Get the cheap lightweight stuff and make noise.

Nemo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,451 Posts
It smells like cat piss while you shoot it but it goes bang, cycles fine and hits your target. Should get closer to 1-1.5 moa out of a decent rifle.
 

·
NRA Instructor
Joined
·
3,391 Posts
Both are still nasty ammo and can gum up your firearms. As long as they get a very good scrubbing after each use not too much harm is done. Inside the BCG, gas system and especially under the extractor to make sure there is absolutely no build up of gunk everything should be fine. I see far too many AKs and ARs gumed up from TulAmmo and Wolf.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,238 Posts
Keep plenty of cleaning stuff on hand and be ready for a damn mess. Other wise have fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,384 Posts
I got a steel casing of Wolf Military .223 stuck in the chamber of my AR15. I had to tear the upper completely down and heat up the barrel to get it out. It had some sort of lacquer build up that literally glued the casing in place.

I've used WOLF black box without any issues.

Nowadays I stick to brass. The nasty cheap stuff not worth the wear and tear on my AR15s.

YMMV
 
  • Like
Reactions: TimBob

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,425 Posts
It smells like cat piss while you shoot it but it goes bang, cycles fine and hits your target.
I don't like the cat nor having to clean his litter box daily. I sure the hell don't want to be reminded of him while I'm enjoying some range time. :lol:
 
  • Like
Reactions: atlsrt44

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
So on the topic of accuracy Nemo and Mr. hutch both report that the cheap Wolf and Tula steel cased ammo can be accurate.

Does anybody else have any observations about accuracy or 55 grain bullets versus 75 grain bullets from these companies (Wolf, Tula?)
 

·
Man of Myth and Legend
Joined
·
13,672 Posts
I only have used the 55 stuff. No help for you on others.

Nemo
 

·
Professional Troll
Joined
·
2,113 Posts
I used to shoot Wolf years ago, but after many mags the lacquer or whatever it was they put on the steel cases would gum up my chamber and cause rounds to stick. That along with staying up through the night deep cleaning my rifle prompted me to never shoot that crap again.
 

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
James you didn't even read the post in this thread did you?
You just replied to the title.

I'm NOT asking about all the various pros and cons of using imported steel cased ammo versus using brass cased American ammo. I'm not talking about dirty ammo; I'm not talking about extractor breakage or barrel wear. I'm not talking about stuck cases.


I'm talking about accuracy.


And "cost," I suppose too, because the reason I'm planning on ordering a case of Wolf or Tula ammo is that it's half the price.
 

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
P.S. Luckygunner did an exhaustive test on all the various characteristics of steel cased imported ammo versus federal brass cased American made ammo, when used in identical Bushmaster AR carbines.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

The test showed that the Federal brass stuff is a far superior product in terms of reliability and minimizing the wear and tear on your rifle. That also translates to better accuracy after a few thousand rounds have been fired. The bimetallic (zinc and steel, or copper and steel) bullets of the imported Russian stuff can wear out the lands and grooves of a rifle barrel after maybe 4000 rounds. That opens the groups dramatically and some bullets even wobble and keyhole into the target.

HOWEVER, given the tremendous cost difference in the .223 ammo types, the report shows that even if you changed the barrel and extractor on your rifle every 3000 rounds you would still come out ahead financially by using the cheap steel cased stuff.
 

·
Professional Troll
Joined
·
2,113 Posts
James you didn't even read the post in this thread did you?
You just replied to the title.

I'm NOT asking about all the various pros and cons of using imported steel cased ammo versus using brass cased American ammo. I'm not talking about dirty ammo; I'm not talking about extractor breakage or barrel wear. I'm not talking about stuck cases.
Kurt, Kurt.. What arrogance and presumption to think I was solely responding to you. I guess you never considered that maybe, just maybe, I was responding to and corroborating to those that commented, like me, solely on the filthiness of the product. Sticks in your craw, :censored:.
 

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
7FF8318D-7EEE-453E-9ED5-388B8B848956.png


Back on topic-- accuracy of Russian made steel cased ammunition.

Out of all the hundreds, even thousands, of registered users of Geogiapacking.org, only TWO people have shared experiences with accuracy testing this ammo.

SO LET'S EXPAND THE SEARCH FOR TRUTH TO INCLUDE TESTING AND EVALUATION (range reports) FROM OTHER WEBSITES.

https://criterionbarrels.com/media/...pes-of-ammunition-with-criterion-ar15-barrel/

The Criterion company, maker of match grade barrels used for custom builds, has found that it can be almost as accurate as some of the American-branded brass-cased .223.
Which is to say, Not very accurate. Ballpark of 3 MOA.

This screen shot is the chart of results for one lot of Wolf Polyformance 55 gr. FMJ shot from two AR rifles with a high-quality scope from the bench at 100 yards. The first three groups were fired with a standard AR rifle, and the second three groups were fired from an accurized rifle of the same type, but which had been modified in several ways.
 

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
The Criterion testing showed that while Federal mil-spec XM193 ammo had about the same unimpressive accuracy as Wolf ---AT 100 YARDS---

the American ammo had more consistent velocity thru the chronograph, which should mean better accuracy at longer ranges where bullet drop is a big factor.
 

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
https://forums.gunsandammo.com/discussion/18766/steel-cased-ammo-accuracy-test
Guns & Ammo's online forum had a thread from one of their senior members who tested Wolf steel, 55 gr bullets, in his heavy-barreled AR rifle. Average group size was 2.6 inches.

Then he, being a handloader, pulled the bullets on some of those Wolf cartridges and replaced them with Hornady Z-Max ballistic tip 55 gr. projectiles. He kept the exact same powder charge in the original Wolf steel cases--nothing changed but the bullet.

That shrunk the groups to 1 inch.

(Turns out the Wolf bullets had huge variations in weight. 3 grain deviations in a sample of 5 bullets weighed.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
I have only used the 55gr loads and have never tested for groups. I had no problem hitting full size torso silhouettes out to 300 yards with iron sights. I never noticed any difference between Wolf and Tulammo.
 

·
Lawyer and Gun Activist
Joined
·
27,996 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
https://www.guntweaks.com/tulammo-steel-cased-223-accuracy-test.html

This website did a test with an AR that had a 1:7 twist barrel, so they included heavier bullet weights ip to 75 grain for Tula.
They also used an expensive, high quality brass cased round with a 77 gr. open tip HP match bullet for comparison.

RESULT:

TulAmmo 55 gr. wasn't good on accuracy, especially after the barrel got hot. Its average 5-shot group at 100 yds was 5.5 inches.

TulAmmo 62 grain was much better, at about 3.5 inches.

TulAmmo's 75 grain load was pretty good, at around 3 inches for the five-shot group.

But the Hornady brass cased, lead-and-copper bullet in 77 gr OTHP was the clear winner in accuracy at a little over 1.5 inches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,905 Posts
View attachment 14079 For anybody who says an AR rifle deserves to be fed high quality ammo so I can shoot sub minute of angle groups, keep in mind that my goal would only be to shoot a bunches of 10's and 9's at a high power rifle match out to 600 yards.

The 600 yard NRA approved rifle target has a 10 ring diameter of 12 inches (2 MOA), but the nine ring extends out to 18 inches, which is 3 MOA at that distance).

If I keep my 10 or 20 shot group all within the 9-ring or better, by random probability half of those bullets will also hit the 10 rings or better. A few will hit the X ring. So you can get a good score with 2.5 MOA performance in an NRA or CMP highpower rifle match. (You won't "win" with that many nines, but you could come close.)
Half 9's and half 10's is master level (95%). I don't shoot service rifle, but I used to shoot alongside them. They didn't shoot tula or wolf. Getting a consistent 2" group at 100 yards doesn't translate to 12" at 600. I think a goal of only shooting 9's and 10's at 600 with wolf or tula is a lofty one.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top