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A Typical Cat
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Police Didn't Always Patrol Areas Looking for People to Arrest

Modern policing is largely a nineteenth-century invention, and prior to modern urban police forces, state agents were generally called in to deal only with episodes of general social unrest.
Prior to the age of the modern police patrol in English-speaking countries, state agents - often a sheriff-like official - were used primarily to compel named defendants to appear in court when another citizen had made a complaint in court against that person, usually to demand restitution for some wrong inflicted. It wasn't until the twentieth century that police agents routinely patrolled an area looking for places to intervene. In the United States, for example, as Jack Greene notes, "the American police service was originally cast as a reactive force, not as a preventive of interdicting force. ... America's police were to provide assistance on request, not to proactively intervene in the lives of the community."
https://mises.org/blog/too-many-laws-why-police-encounters-escalate
 

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Let's go back to reactivism vs. proactivism.
 

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the reason why police encounters escalate is because cops can't abide non-compliance. their authority can never be allowed to be questioned, or the house of cards crumbles. it's no more complicated than that.

now, the article has some good points about how things have changed over time for the worse, and how there are too many mala prohibita laws, but they chose the title poorly.
 

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Let's go back to reactivism vs. proactivism.
Sure, then I can get rid of my license plates and run all the slow people in the left lane off the road. I'll be home safe and sound long before any of them could bother to complain to the police and ask that the stranger they don't know be subject to justice, so no cops could come get me as they wouldn't know who the defendant should be.

Though, I bet that would get people to eventually learn to move over for faster vehicles relatively quickly....
 

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Sure, then I can get rid of my license plates and run all the slow people in the left lane off the road. I'll be home safe and sound long before any of them could bother to complain to the police and ask that the stranger they don't know be subject to justice, so no cops could come get me as they wouldn't know who the defendant should be.

Though, I bet that would get people to eventually learn to move over for faster vehicles relatively quickly....
No, it will just mean more people will put cameras on their cars to record your illegal activities and your plate number. People taking some self-policing initiative sounds pretty good to me.
 

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A Typical Cat
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sure, then I can get rid of my license plates and run all the slow people in the left lane off the road. I'll be home safe and sound long before any of them could bother to complain to the police and ask that the stranger they don't know be subject to justice, so no cops could come get me as they wouldn't know who the defendant should be.

Though, I bet that would get people to eventually learn to move over for faster vehicles relatively quickly....
Nah, some citizen would make it a point to video your actions, follow you home, get an address and report your activity.
 

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Proud GCO member.
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Sure, then I can get rid of my license plates and run all the slow people in the left lane off the road..
Who's stopping you from doing that right now?
 

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Under Scrutiny
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No, it will just mean more people will put cameras on their cars to record your illegal activities and your plate number. People taking some self-policing initiative sounds pretty good to me.
I see you didn't read the part where I removed the plate....

Nah, some citizen would make it a point to video your actions, follow you home, get an address and report your activity.
Is that before or after I harmed them before I got anywhere near home?

Who's stopping you from doing that right now?
Having a conscious unfortunately. Beyond that, however, is knowing that my license plate identifies me and cops can be summoned quickly by any number of people around should I do anything which does more than piss a person off. Give me a "burner" vehicle and no little chance of identification and then it's pretty much just my conscious that would keep me from rewarding stupidity with negative impacts.

The police of "old" brought in "known suspects" for trial, they didn't go about detailed forensic investigations and they didn't have serial numbers or license plates or other such things.

Without such things, 99% of people I pass every day have no way of identifying who I am outside of "that guy with that car of that color". I could do a drive by shooting in a random neighborhood and without a plate there's little chance even today's more "proactive" police could find me. The one's that relied on victims and witnesses to identify the "bad guy" for them would have had no chance.

Why were they mostly successful you might ask? Because they policed villages of hundreds, not cities of hundreds of thousands. The stranger was noticed and observed among the population of an area. Today the stranger is the norm in most populations.

The simple truth is the days of "tell the police what happened and who did it and then let them bring justice" cannot be recreated in today's world.

Without that license plate (or someone brave/stupid enough to risk their lives in order to follow a person willing to commit crimes that could/have killed people), criminals could easily escape identification. Hell, with all our surveillance and registrations and licensing, look up the rate of closure in homicides in the US. The number of people who get away with murder (literally) in the US even WITH all of that is much higher than most people who watch CSI etc think. More than a third of all homicides go unsolved WITH an active police force and all our regulations. Give our population less obstacles to crime and you would see that increase as accountability would erode and the knowledge of how easy it would be to act on an impulse of rage with impunity.
 

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Incidents of escalation have zero-frick-all to do with reactionary vs proactive policing. It has to do with people, most often criminals with a history, failing to comply with or actively fighting the officer(s). Now I'm not preaching blind and unquestioning compliance, but smart-asses trying to play lawyer on the side of the highway generally talk their way into more problems than were existant to begin with.

It's one thing if you're actually knowledgable of the law, but the vast majority of these idiots simply watched a tv cop drama or took an introductory law course and dubbed their insignificant amount of knowledge sufficient enough to be declared an expert.

A little courtesy, which is a two-way street, goes a long way. Not doing something you're being told, not asked but TOLD, to do isn't bound to produce a favorable reaction from law enforcement. Fighting the officer? You'd better be squared away enough to win, otherwise you're gonna get an ass-whooping, and crying excessive force is going to fall on deaf ears. Save the battle for the court room.

If LEOs went to purely reactionary service, as opposed to any sort of proactive patrols which can deter crime, you'd see crime skyrocket. X business is 10 minutes from the station and there's rush hour traffic to add another 5-10 minutes to the response? Sure, gangbanger Daquan loves the odds he can get away with sticking the place up.
 

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Member Georgia Carry
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Some good points, but...

How about those businesses during the riots in CA who knew not to depend on the police? They took care of their businesses with armed men up on the roof.

I'd like to think if things get any more dangerous for convenience store workers and others that deal with cash, that all managers and cashiers would have their own guns at work.

Incidents of escalation have zero-frick-all to do with reactionary vs proactive policing. It has to do with people, most often criminals with a history, failing to comply with or actively fighting the officer(s). Now I'm not preaching blind and unquestioning compliance, but smart-asses trying to play lawyer on the side of the highway generally talk their way into more problems than were existant to begin with.

It's one thing if you're actually knowledgable of the law, but the vast majority of these idiots simply watched a tv cop drama or took an introductory law course and dubbed their insignificant amount of knowledge sufficient enough to be declared an expert.

A little courtesy, which is a two-way street, goes a long way. Not doing something you're being told, not asked but TOLD, to do isn't bound to produce a favorable reaction from law enforcement. Fighting the officer? You'd better be squared away enough to win, otherwise you're gonna get an ass-whooping, and crying excessive force is going to fall on deaf ears. Save the battle for the court room.

If LEOs went to purely reactionary service, as opposed to any sort of proactive patrols which can deter crime, you'd see crime skyrocket. X business is 10 minutes from the station and there's rush hour traffic to add another 5-10 minutes to the response? Sure, gangbanger Daquan loves the odds he can get away with sticking the place up.
 

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Lawyer and Gun Activist
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photograph the offending car's license plate?
WHAT license plate? If the hatriot sovereign-citizen types get their way, there wont' be any licensing or taxation of vehicles. And even if some law said on paper that cars had to have license plates, there would be no real enforcement of that.

Follow the offending driver home and get his address?
WHAT address? Anarchists would not tolerate any law that says you have to have your street address posted on your property. I doubt that streets would even be named or road signs posted, anyway. Not unless a group of neighbors got together and agreed on a name and bought or made their own signs.
 

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The fear of getting caught is a secondary consideration behind "having a conscious"... of course I already said that and ATL decided to ignore that part of my statement.
I Ignored the bulk of your tl;dr post because it didn't address the issue on the table. The issue on the table is Proactive vs. Reactive policing.

Your made the assertion proactive policing is the only thing preventing the aforementioned behavior behavior. I quote,
"then I can get rid of my license plates and run all the slow people in the left lane off the road"

However, by your own admission your own conscience and the fear of getting caught (i.e. reactive policing) is what actually dissuades you.

If you are inclined to engage in violence against another person license plates and/or proactive policing does absolutely nothing to prevent it.
 
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