Why I hate the AR-15/M-16

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Malum Prohibitum, May 2, 2007.

  1. USMC - Retired

    USMC - Retired New Member

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    He is saying what I've thought and said for over twenty years. I cut my teeth on the M16-A1 in boot camp in '83 and thought it was a nasty rifle. Then we got the M16-A2's and it got a little more accurate and better sights but was still a nasty weapon. Hard to clean and keep clean in a combat environment. When I decided to get myself a .223 platform, as a "SHTF" gun, I went with a Mini-14. I did this because by that time in my life I had the pleasure of shooting M-14's in matches and fell in love with the system. The Mini-14, being basically a scaled down M1A action, gives me the same proven reliability. Yes I know the Mini-14 has accuracy issues, but mine is not expected to be shooting past a couple of hundred yards. If I can see the zombies farther off than that I'll be shooting them with a scoped 30-06 anyway!
     

  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    And I thought it was just mine! :lol:
     
  3. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

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    problem fixed

    [​IMG]
    and here for us civies, sorta
    [​IMG]
    and of course bushmaster
    [​IMG]

    I agree that gas impingment is a crappy system, but in my experience the majority of jams experienced by a rifleman where usually due to substandard , damaged, overloaded, or poorly maintained magazines.
    Although one time we did have a weapon go down on the line due to the fact that the gas tube was obstructed. Another factor is the ammunition used in the AR. I'll take 20 .308s over 30 5.56 anyday, .308 will turn cover into just plain old concealment.
     
  4. lsu_nonleg

    lsu_nonleg New Member

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    See, as much as everyone bitches about the M16A2 (at least that got issued it,) I never had a single difficulty. After the A2 was released, how many reliability issues do you think were due to brand new or qual-only military shooters?

    Of course, I was one of those guys that from the get go applied anecdotal childhood lessons from Tom Clancy-type novels and GI Joe to my first ever rifle at the time. You know, rounds seated all the way back in the mag, close dust cover when not in use, keep your barrel out of the dirt, clean your weapon before you even eat, etc.

    Cleaning the end of the bolt carrier was a pain in the rear, but I think it's less of a PITA than trying to re-seat the spring on the barrel link in a 1911.

    The Sig 556 is nice and can be the token .223 EBR to add to my burgeoning collection, the rest will be .308.
     
  5. steelhorses

    steelhorses New Member

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    blah blah

    I'd rather have a AR15 then a .308 if 30 zombies were coming after me :lol:
     
  6. viper32cm

    viper32cm New Member

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    I know people complain loudly about the M-16 and its derivatives but I still want one.

    I don't really know what to say other than that, well, maybe I do. I would like a Rock River Arms National Match A2.

    Other than that, if I had to grab a rifle for "social purposes" I'd probably reach for my AK or CETME first, but that has more to do with the 5.56 cartridge than anything else.
     
  7. triggerman357

    triggerman357 New Member

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    I sorta want one too, but I can't help remembering how my M16 crapped out on me during qualification while in basic training.
     
  8. tj2000

    tj2000 New Member

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    AMEN +1
    :woohoo:
     
  9. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Lemme guess....he gets hot over a picture of an AK

    lame.
     
  10. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    If the AR was that damn bad it wouldn't be standard issue for 4 decades.

    I had an issued A2 when I was in the Marines and it was just fine. To tell the truth, the only reason I think I ever had an FTF was because they pretty much issue you 6 magazines to bang around and trash in peacetime and the armorers were so damn anal retentive about cleaning we pretty much wrecked the weapons over time. Either by scrubbing them with the hardest wire brushes we could find or immersing them in whatever concoction we cooked up... whatever we could do to get out of 4 days of cleaning for 1 day of use :roll:

    My AR carbine has had probably 2k rounds through it, no jams, FTF's or FTE's and been cleaned 4 times.

    Sure, I would pick up the AK if faced with close-range zombie hordes, but if I was planning on routinely engaging zombies at ranges over 100 yards or marching 10 miles to find them, I would pick the AR.

    Overall the AK is mo' betta, but the AR is far from crap.
     
  11. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    ARs would be fun to tinker around with, but I have never gotten bit by the bug. Never can tell when that critter is likely to bite though. There are other platforms that I prefer, namely a good levergun.
     
  12. asbrand

    asbrand Active Member

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    You can have your AR's. 8)

    I'm perfectly happy with my .308 FN/FAL and HK-91. *grin*

    Let's see who can reach out and touch someone the furthest.

    And, yes, I know...most engagements are much closer. True. So, I still prefer a weapon that can shoot through "cover". *grin*

    Just my *personal* opinions. I'd never try to tell someone what they have to use...
     
  13. tj2000

    tj2000 New Member

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    Reach!!!!!

    If your talking long distance I will go head to head with you. If I want long distance and power I will use my Browning BPR (Browning Pump action Rifle) 300 Magnum, Ha. I know it's not a military rifle but it will reach out and touch deer at really long distances.
    :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  14. asbrand

    asbrand Active Member

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    LOL - yeah, I was comparing military semi-autos. :)

    I mean...if you wanna get serious about long range...get you a Barrett .50 cal.... *grin*
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Soldiers Want a Bigger Bang
    http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003515.html

    Soldiers Want a Bigger Bang

    Nearly 80 percent of Soldiers said in a recent survey they are satisfied with their weapons, though almost half recommended a replacement for the standard-issued M9 pistol or ammunition with more stopping power.

    Additionally, nearly 30 percent of Soldiers in the December 2006 survey, conducted on behalf of the Army by the Center for Naval Analyses, said the M4 carbine should be replaced or more deadly ammunition fielded.

    "Across weapons, Soldiers have requested weapons and ammunition with more stopping power/lethality," the report said.

    The study was commissioned by the Army's Project Manager for Soldier Weapons to address concerns raised by Soldiers returning from combat about the dependability and effectiveness of their small arms.

    Download the entire CNA report here (2MB pdf).

    "This study assessed Soldier perspectives on the reliability and durability of their weapons systems in combat to aid in decisions regarding current and future small arms needs of the Army," said the study, which was obtained by Military.com.

    CNA surveyors conducted over 2,600 interviews with Soldiers returning from combat duty, asking them a variety of questions about accessories, weapons training, maintenance and recommended changes to their small arms.

    "The U.S. Army Infantry Center is conducting a study to refine the Army's Small Arms Strategy, which focuses on the employment of rifles, carbines, ammunition caliber, and future technologies," said Army spokesman, Lt. Col. William Wiggins, in a statement. "All Services are participating in this study, which is expected in the July/August 2007 timeframe."

    The survey lends weight to Army claims that current-issued weapons are effective despite growing criticism from Soldiers and lawmakers on Capitol Hill that the service should re-assess the standard M4 - as well as the M9 pistol.

    In April, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) sent a letter to acting Army secretary Pete Geren taking issue with the service's sole-source contract to buy about 500,000 M4 carbines despite evidence that new rifle technologies could provide more reliable weapons.

    The study found the most stoppage problems with the M249 machine gun and M9 pistol, with an average of about 30 percent of respondents saying they experienced stoppages with each weapon in firefights. About four in ten Soldiers who said they experienced jams during combat with their pistols or machine guns claimed it took them out of the fight.

    Though vocal critics of the M4 say it's prone to jamming in the talcum-like sand environments of Iraq and Afghanistan, only 19 percent of M4 users said they experienced stoppages in combat.

    But of those with malfunctioning M4s, nearly 20 percent said they were "unable to engage the target with that weapon during a significant portion of or the entire firefight after performing immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage," the report said.

    Soldiers who attach accessories to their weapons experienced a disproportionate number of malfunctions, with M249 users nine times more likely to experience a stoppage "if accessories were attached via zip cord, four times more likely if attached with duct tape and three times more likely if attached with dummy cords or rails."

    "Accessory attachments had a significant impact on reported stoppages," the report said. "Those who attached accessories to their weapon were more likely to experience stoppages, regardless of how the accessories were attached."

    The CNA surveyors also asked Soldiers for their opinions on possible improvements to their small arms. The top request from Soldiers was for more knock-down power, reigniting the debate over America's small arms caliber choices.

    "When speaking to experts and Soldiers on site, many commented on the limited ability to effectively stop targets, saying that those personnel targets who were shot multiple times were still able to continue pursuit," the report said.

    A full 20 percent of M9 users said they wanted a new weapon, and "some were more specific and requested a return to the Colt .45 for standard issue pistols," including others who asked for hollow-point ammo.

    Hollow point rounds have been deemed illegal for military use.

    Additionally, M16 users were "consistent and adamant" in asking to be re-issued the more compact M4.
     
  16. bags

    bags New Member

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    I learned the m16a2 in 93 and I found then that if you look at it the wrong way it will jam. I like it, I know it, but the thing will jam if a few dry blades of grass happen to blow towards it during a wind storm.

    I have NEVER been on a battle field with one, this was all expereinced on ranges.. so it is possible it works well, but from listening to people who use it, same type problem.

    Now, I will take a 249 saw any day of the year.
     
  17. Firearmz

    Firearmz New Member

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    The HK cured the dirty problem by getting rid of the direct impingement gas system and going to a short stroke piston (not really HK Stoner did it first). Now HK does not want us lonely civilians to won one so comes everyone else with piston system. When actually you can convert your old gun for less than 400 bucks. I am currently having my Rock River Arms converted by Doc Holt at Specialized Firearms. If I were going to purchase one today it would be the
    http://www.lwrifles.com/store/product_i ... ucts_id=34

    This rifle seems to be rocking the civilian market and performing exceptionally well.
     
  18. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I'm diggin' that crest.