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Seasteading Aficionado
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A great article, IMHO.

So are some gun owners, opposed that is, including those representing themselves to be "gun rights" advocates. I saw the following response to this story on an NRA-related gun forum:

Permitting carry licenses tend to weed out people who are not responsible. This right comes with huge responsibility. One idiot that brandishes a weapon or shoots an innocent and everything we have worked for in the NRA will be undone. One idiot and the gun grabbers will have all they need.

The law has a term for people it considers irresponsible to even own a gun, let alone carry one. They're called "prohibited persons." Anybody think they refrain from carrying because they don't have a license? And if they're caught with a gun, concealed or otherwise, they'll be arrested. Nothing in Rep. Harmon's bill will change that....

Unpermitted "idiots" already brandish and shoot innocents. We call these people "criminals." It's the permitted carriers the antis are gunning for--as evidenced by Violence Policy Center's "Concealed Carry Killers" project. It's every time a gun owner with a CCW license commits a crime of violence that the gun grabbers have a "we told you so" field day.
Please go read the rest of the article here: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-n ... aled-carry

He makes some good points that I cannot post here as well. Everything that he said was logical and made good sense. Especially, since the law already has a term for people that cannot be trusted with guns, called "prohibited persons." Such as felons. So having the license is really just redundancy. Nothing is going to change that with unlicensed carry.

Also, you're taking away a tax where some bureaucrat can decide whether he wants you to carry or not. Not so much, Georgia, but in other states as well.
 

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I think before too long (4 years or so) the SAF, through targeted litigation will end the permit system. Once strict scrutiny is established in Nordyke most regulation about keeping and bearing arms in the states will fail, including permits. That is my belief, but give it time.

Several states have constitutional carry, meaning no permit is required. If it works in other states, why not in all?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
All the more reason to join the SAF.
 

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Just my take on this. what seperates you and I from everyone else is because we have a permit to carry. When Im walking down the street and I see another guy concealing or carrying 2 things cross my mind, either he is a cop or a permit holder. So sadly on my part this gives me a sense of security that the person openly carrying a firearm is safe to be around. Take the permit out of the equation and we have EVERY gun nut carrying a handgun or weapon. Now instead of me thinking of them as legal/LEO now I need to think if this person is irresponsible or a felon. Sadly theres just some people in this country that shouldnt own a firearm period even when they follow the law. We know who they are, we know how they act. these very same people can get a permit, but its easily revoked and prevented from carrying ever again. Yes the right to bear arms is a right we all have and should never lose, and I'll fight tooth and nail to keep it. But that doesnt change my mind that some people shouldnt ever own a gun let alone be able to legally cary it any where they want. With our permit comes responsibility, to not only stay safe with our weapons but to follow every leg of the law when carrying it. Most people don't give two @[email protected]#$ about the laws as much as you and I, so they will of course break the laws left and right.. you wanna extend rights to carry to every citizen?

then give your handguns to these guys:


Maybe they're all legal eagle in the computer system, but that doesnt mean they've never robbed a liquor store or shot and killed someone and never got caught. Now lets extend the right to carry openly in public to every gang member in the Us that has never been caught, give them legal tools to get into a fire fight, that way they can settle who was defending whose life in court... Dumb idea..
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
TippinTaco said:
what seperates you and I from everyone else is because we have a permit to carry.
Negative. What separates us is that we are law-abiding, they are criminals. If they cannot get a permit, then they are already a prohibited person. The license is just redundancy, a tax, and is anti-freedom. Your permit can be revoked w/o due process for no law broken by a bureaucrat. That's not freedom, its anti-2nd amendment. This is about freedom and liberty, and the law.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." --Thomas Jefferson
 

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TippinTaco said:
Maybe they're all legal eagle in the computer system, but that doesnt mean they've never robbed a liquor store or shot and killed someone and never got caught. Now lets extend the right to carry openly in public to every gang member in the Us that has never been caught, give them legal tools to get into a fire fight, that way they can settle who was defending whose life in court... Dumb idea..
If they're "legal eagle" as you say, what would prevent them from getting a GWL? Criminals will carry either way.
 

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TippinTaco said:
Just my take on this. what seperates you and I from everyone else is because we have a permit to carry. When Im walking down the street and I see another guy concealing or carrying 2 things cross my mind, either he is a cop or a permit holder. So sadly on my part this gives me a sense of security that the person openly carrying a firearm is safe to be around. Take the permit out of the equation and we have EVERY gun nut carrying a handgun or weapon. Now instead of me thinking of them as legal/LEO now I need to think if this person is irresponsible or a felon. Sadly theres just some people in this country that shouldnt own a firearm period even when they follow the law. We know who they are, we know how they act. these very same people can get a permit, but its easily revoked and prevented from carrying ever again. Yes the right to bear arms is a right we all have and should never lose, and I'll fight tooth and nail to keep it. But that doesnt change my mind that some people shouldnt ever own a gun let alone be able to legally cary it any where they want. With our permit comes responsibility, to not only stay safe with our weapons but to follow every leg of the law when carrying it. Most people don't give two @[email protected]#$ about the laws as much as you and I, so they will of course break the laws left and right.. you wanna extend rights to carry to every citizen?

then give your handguns to these guys:


Maybe they're all legal eagle in the computer system, but that doesnt mean they've never robbed a liquor store or shot and killed someone and never got caught. Now lets extend the right to carry openly in public to every gang member in the Us that has never been caught, give them legal tools to get into a fire fight, that way they can settle who was defending whose life in court... Dumb idea..
if they are clean in the system nothing is stopping them from getting a license anyway
 

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TippinTaco said:
Just my take on this. what seperates you and I from everyone else is because we have a permit to carry. When Im walking down the street and I see another guy concealing or carrying 2 things cross my mind, either he is a cop or a permit holder.
This makes little sense to me.

First off, you won't see anyone conceal carrying, but that's just semantics. I knew what you meant.

Carrying a gun does NOT guarantee the person is a cop or permit holder. I wish you would explain that a bit more. Thugs carry guns with or without a permit. So why are we (the good guys) left to pay for a right?
 

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TippinTaco said:
Now lets extend the right to carry openly in public to every gang member in the Us that has never been caught . . . Dumb idea.
You have to be kidding me. Georgia is one of only 13 states that require a license to carry openly. Others include states like New Jersey, Maryland, Massachessetts, and Hawaii.

Please, TippinTaco, please, tell me what is happening in the majority of states in the United States that have no law against carrying a pistol openly without a license.

Your picture, meant to appeal to emotion (in this case hysteria, coming from a Greek word for a certain part of uniquely female anatomy), has long guns. Even fewer states regulate the carry of long arms openly. Not even Georgia does that. It is legal for children to carry long arms openly in Georgia, so please explain why I, as a full grown man, must have a license to wear a holstered pistol openly?

I know why - Jim Crow.

Kind of sounds like the argument you are making comes from 1906. http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/wp-cont ... n-laws.pdf

I sure would like to hear about the downside to "the right to carry openly in public," since this is the majority rule in this country. Georgia is the odd man out, and not for a whole lot longer if I get my way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Malum Prohibitum said:
Georgia is the odd man out, and not for a whole lot longer if I get my way.
MP is talking crazy and I like it! :woohoo:
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
I sure would like to hear about the downside to "the right to carry openly in public," since this is the majority rule in this country. Georgia is the odd man out, and not for a whole lot longer if I get my way.
:exactly:
 

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David Codrea said:
Hell of a thing, freedom. It's not perfect. Its benefits come with costs. Without responsibility, problems can arise.

It sure beats the hell out of the alternative though, doesn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Malum Prohibitum said:
[quote="David Codrea":11mc3bbl]Hell of a thing, freedom. It's not perfect. Its benefits come with costs. Without responsibility, problems can arise.

It sure beats the hell out of the alternative though, doesn't it?
[/quote:11mc3bbl]

But we need the government to protect us from the bad people. We have to give away freedoms to make sure they can protect us. It would just be too scary to have freedom. :|

You know, freedom is one of those things. With great freedoms come great responsibility. I think a lot of people are either too lazy, irresponsibly, or scared to want to experience true freedom. Its like they need and want the government to be there to protect them from all the scary bad people out there.

I can never understand why people agree with having a tax on our 2nd amendment rights. Furthermore, why would you want to give the power to take away your license to some bureaucrat, who can take it away at a whim, without due process, and without breaking a law.

We don't tax people to exercise their right to free speech.
 

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EJR914 said:
Malum Prohibitum said:
Georgia is the odd man out, and not for a whole lot longer if I get my way.
MP is talking crazy and I like it! :woohoo:
You can be darn sure that I'm gonna do anything I can to make sure MP gets his way. :righton:
 

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TippinTaco said:
Just my take on this. what seperates you and I from everyone else is because we have a permit to carry. When Im walking down the street and I see another guy concealing or carrying 2 things cross my mind, either he is a cop or a permit holder. So sadly on my part this gives me a sense of security that the person openly carrying a firearm is safe to be around. Take the permit out of the equation and we have EVERY gun nut carrying a handgun or weapon. Now instead of me thinking of them as legal/LEO now I need to think if this person is irresponsible or a felon. Sadly theres just some people in this country that shouldnt own a firearm period even when they follow the law. We know who they are, we know how they act. these very same people can get a permit, but its easily revoked and prevented from carrying ever again. Yes the right to bear arms is a right we all have and should never lose, and I'll fight tooth and nail to keep it. But that doesnt change my mind that some people shouldnt ever own a gun let alone be able to legally cary it any where they want. With our permit comes responsibility, to not only stay safe with our weapons but to follow every leg of the law when carrying it. Most people don't give two @[email protected]#$ about the laws as much as you and I, so they will of course break the laws left and right.. you wanna extend rights to carry to every citizen?

then give your handguns to these guys:


Maybe they're all legal eagle in the computer system, but that doesnt mean they've never robbed a liquor store or shot and killed someone and never got caught. Now lets extend the right to carry openly in public to every gang member in the Us that has never been caught, give them legal tools to get into a fire fight, that way they can settle who was defending whose life in court... Dumb idea..
Criminals carry anyway without a permit. The permit system is just a poll tax and control that restricts law-abiding citizens only. Free speech is also a right with great responsibility. Maybe we need a permit system for that too, in addition to the permits for parades, certain public gatherings, etc that are already in place? If responsibility comes with permits, then every right we hold dear would be well served by having them restricted with permits, correct?

Liberalism is filled with good intentions, but fails to see beyond its own nose to what the consequences are for the things it seeks to impose on a free people.
 

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I want to keep a permit requirement to carry a gun in public, other than transporting an unloaded and encased gun, or briefly "carrying" the gun a short distance from your vehicle to your home (let's say you have to park on the public street and walk 20 feet of public sidewalk before you get to your own property).

I think that having a permit lets good guys show they are good guys, and it lets cops arrest hoodlums, thugs, and other assorted irresponsible people who ignore the law (a very easy law to comply with) and carry without a permit.

Now for states that DO NOT have a carry permit for OC, fine. I'm not saying they need one.
But we in Georgia have one, and I like it. (except, like I said, for the lack of a clear exception for transport and covering that short distance from your parked car to your home).
 

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commodore_dude said:
TippinTaco said:
Maybe they're all legal eagle in the computer system, but that doesnt mean they've never robbed a liquor store or shot and killed someone and never got caught. Now lets extend the right to carry openly in public to every gang member in the Us that has never been caught, give them legal tools to get into a fire fight, that way they can settle who was defending whose life in court... Dumb idea..
If they're "legal eagle" as you say, what would prevent them from getting a GWL? Criminals will carry either way.
:D
 

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gunsmoker said:
I want to keep a permit requirement to carry a gun in public, other than transporting an unloaded and encased gun, or briefly "carrying" the gun a short distance from your vehicle to your home (let's say you have to park on the public street and walk 20 feet of public sidewalk before you get to your own property).
That is stricter than Georgia law is now!

gunsmoker said:
I think that having a permit lets good guys show they are good guys, and it lets cops arrest hoodlums, thugs, and other assorted irresponsible people who ignore the law (a very easy law to comply with) and carry without a permit.
While I am quite sure that the permit "lets" me show I am a good guy, what if I simply refuse to show it? What if I am one of those weirdos who takes the Fourth Amendment seriously (and the Second)? How is the police officer to distinguish me from the hoodlums, thugs, and other assorted irresponsible people whom you think he should be arresting every time he sees an armed person who does not display a permit upon demand?

Do you really want to show a license multiple times a day to any officer who wants to detain you? Really? Is that the kind of world in which you want to live?

Not me.

Tommy Something or Other said:
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
 

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I am not interested in showing the armed government agent that I am a "good guy." I want him to leave me alone.
 
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