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Discussion in 'Places Off-Limits' started by mzmtg, Jul 31, 2007.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php ... did=735718
Great post, thanks for sharing. My brother-in-law has a code too. The plan isn't quite as well planned or rehearsed but whenever we hear him refer to "Uncle John" - go get Uncle John, have you seen Uncle John, etc. -we know what he means. Uncle John must have been a bad-mama-jama to get a .357 named after him. I don't want to meet him.
This message needs to be finished...what happens when one guy goes the wife, as in this case, and she doesn't carry. You now have two choices to make...confront the bad guy in front of you, or confront the bad guy in front of your wife. Either way, you leave the other guy to make his move.
Would you have done anything differently?
I just went back and read the thread from the original posting. Some of the replies brought about interesting questions. Someone suggested the intended victim should have followed through and drawn his weapon. Let's assume they were not at a rest stop, which is an off-limits place in GA, but somewhere we are actually allowed to carry and this instance were to occur. Legally, could we draw our weapon rather than just show it? If so, would it have to be pointed away from the victim (towards the ground, for instance)?
The reality is this - if I truly believe that I (or my family) am in immediate danger I will worry less about the legality and do what is both practical and necessary. As they say, rather be judged by 12 of my peers than carried by 6.
LEO's please comment on GA law here. Again, assume this incident occurred in a legal carry zone.
Only the buildings are off limits.
It was a question rather than a statement. What is the best thing to do? I think that I would try to protect my wife first, but as I said, you then take your attention off the other attacker who could then kill her instead.
What does one do when there are two attackers that are separated in a situation like this?
Wow, looks like he avoided some badness. Good for him and his wife for thinking things through and being on alert. About the only thing I could say his wife might should do is to move back at a 225* or 135* instead of 90* or 270*. That puts him closer to the threat and means he'll be the closest point to attack for them. It puts her closer to him laterally from the bad guys' perspective, but either one bad guy has to swing wide and take more time doing that to get to her or they both have to come through him to get to her. I may be wrong though.
The only experience I have with multiple attackers is in some sparring I've done when I was in taekwondo and hapkido. I do think that some of it is very applicable to close quarters shooting, but I haven't gotten any official instruction on it and I certainly haven't gotten enough practice at it. A few points to consider:
#1 is don't stand in one place. Pausing every now and then to take a well placed shot/punch/kick at someone is ok, but don't remain a stationary target for long.
#2 is don't move in straight lines back and forth. Moving sideways and in arcs forces the other guy to shift their weight and change their stance. People love to attack in a straight line b/c you can build momentum easily. If you move sideways or in an arc and force them to change directions, then you can use some of that momentum they just generated against them. You see football players doing this all the time. Get the other guy to commit to a direction and then you move perpendicular to that direction without telegraphing it.
#3 is use obstructions against them. Obstructions could be anything like benches, signs, trees, and other attackers. Try to make them line up behind each other so you only have to deal with one or two at a time. This is especially good if they're shooting back at you b/c you might be able to get them to shoot each other. But if you can involve an obstruction, then you can force them to go around it and you can predict their movement. Predicting their movement equals a well placed shot/punch/kick for you.
#4 is keep on the outside of their group. Don't get surrounded and you won't get pummeled from all sides. You can prepare yourself for a punch you can see coming, but the one you don't see coming will ring your bell.
This guy had a plan. To be honest my wife and I have plans for while we are home, but have never discussed one for while we are travelling. I plan to remedy that tonight.
Can you carry at a rest stop? Isn't that considered state property?
I have discussed with my other half situations while in the car, such as a car jacking. She understands what to do and how to do it if an attacker or attackers came from either side of the vehicle.
This is a great learning situation and I will definitely apply it as we travel to FL a bunch.
Thaks for the post.
Still no response on when/if we are justified in drawing our weapon? What must the perceived/real threat be to warrant such action? Also, at the point the weapon is drawn, is there any distinction legally between pointing the weapon in the direction of the threat vs. pointing in another direction (say down at 45 degree angle)?
Also, I discussed this scenario with my wife last night and she was really open to the plan. She did make some jokes about the particular code words this man used. I told her I didn't care if she yelled colors, just let me know what "she" had chosen in advance. We were wondering though if there might should be a fourth code word which simply says, "hit the deck". I have some concern, which she echod, that her decision which way to move in the event of a threat might not be the best for me. If she were to "hit the deck" this would still confuse the threat and, hopefully, give me time to react in the necessary manner. It would also make sure she she was not in my line of fire in any direction.
**sorry I keep editing this but apparantly I can't type or spell***
Any thoughts on either of these items???
Personally, I think it was too early to draw. So did the poster over at GT.
Difficult to tell. As I said, I think it was a bit early. Two people were walking toward them while looking around. One reached in his belt area, but the original poster could not tell if there was a weapon.
If I am drawing, I am probably shooting.
I agree that it was probably too early to draw, however, you also don't want your reaction to be too late to take action. I guess there is a fine line there and you must assess the perceived threat to yourself vs. committing aggravated assault yourself by drawing on someone which may or may not be attempting to commit a crime.
You will not get the same benefit of the doubt that a police officer gets.
A stern warning to stop and not approach any closer . . .
It would result in him stopping, or approaching. Then other measures might be appropriate.
after thought, ouch thinking hurts! Anyways, I would have done the same thing. Heck I did on the way to FL during those line of hurricanes. If it wasnt for my hand on my gun I may have had a close encounter. I never drew, but they got the point.
I think I would have handled like he did. And of course make the report as he did as well.
Tell us the story Uncle Sharky, pleeeease!
good story, and lesson
...and the parking lot and within 200 yards of the building and parking lot.
The last two trips I took up the east coast, we had trouble with scumbags at rest stops...I think one was in SC, the other Virginia. The last trip was with my mom late at night, and she was giving this drug addict and pissing him off more while he was trying to tell us his sob story, ran out of gas, begging for money, etc. I just kept staring at the guy, hoping I wouldn't have to shoot him if he tried something.
Then we got in the car, and she said that she thought I was going to have to shoot the guy. Oh, my mom also told me not to bring a gun on the trip before we left, but now she knows why I always bring one.