Where and What to buy for 12Ga

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Sine Nomen, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Sine Nomen

    Sine Nomen New Member

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    After impulse buying a scattergun today, I remembered that I never really decided what I wanted to load in it. I'm really leaning to BB birdshot since the walls in my apartment are pretty flimsy. I've also never shot a 12Ga before, so I'm not sure if I'll be wanting full power rounds or reduced recoil options.

    I'm hoping to go shooting when I pick up my Kahr tomorrow, so I'm wondering who in the area has a good selection of shotshells on the shelf so I can cycle through some stuff and see what will work best with me and my gun?
     
  2. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    Long before I "discovered" reduced recoil 00 buckshot, I kept turkey loads in my shotguns. They were stout enough for critter control and still being good for in-house defensive work.

    I really like shooting the reduced recoil 8 pellet 00 buck as it patterns really well in my 870P. The 9 pellet reduced recoil loads tend to spread apart more and give me more flyers.
     

  3. Thorsen

    Thorsen New Member

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    I keep my 12 gauge loaded with 3" #1 buckshot rounds. I think it is a good compromise between overpenetration and reduced firepower at distance. If you are really concerned about overpenetration because of your apartment walls, birdshot might be the best route for you to go.
     
  4. mmmTang

    mmmTang New Member

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    You can't believe everything you read out there on the internet, so take this with a grain of salt, but the guy on this site does some actual tests on real life objects. It's a very interesting and informative site, IMHO.

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

    The problem with using birdshot is that it doesn't penetrate. I know you don't want the over penetration of some shotgun loads, but that birdshot just isn't going to score a CNS hit easily or cause major organ failure fast enough. You want the bad guy to stop right frickin' NOW, and birdshot just doesn't penetrate enough to hit vital organs if you score a COM hit. You'd have to place multiple shots in the same area with birdshot, whereas 0-000 buckshot will do it in one shot.

    BUT, I've never shot a crackhead with birdshot at close range, so thankfully I can't speak from experience. All I know is that buckshot has been the preferred load of soldiers equipped with shotguns for quite some time now, and those guys know a thing or two about stopping a threat. Just practice, practice, practice until you can reliably place your shots so you aren't worrying too much about your walls. Be responsible, but in the end you gotta be alive to be sued.

    As for where to buy shells, Adventure Outdoors has a nice selection and Wal-Mart has large 100rd packs of cheap birdshot that's great to practice with. Just make sure to buy different buckshot loads as well.
     
  5. Bulldawg182

    Bulldawg182 Active Member

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    I'll have to go dig it up, but there's a great research piece somewhere on GT or AR15 which evaluates all 12 ga ammo for self defense. The nuts & bolts of it found that #1 buck offered substantial benefit over both bird shot and 00 buck. 16 pellets vs. 9 pellets for a much better pattern at home defense distances and better penetration as well. I'll try to find it later today and post it here.

    I took my new shortie to Bullseye last weekend and did some pattern work at various distances. I shot regular load 00 buck, low recoil 00 buck, #1 buck and bird & turkey shot. I was really impressed with the #1 buck and will keep mine loaded with it at all times. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
     
  6. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Really Close Range

    If you have to shoot a bad guy inside your own home with a shotgun, it will probably be at VERY close range. As in, nearly contact distance. At that range, even a low-brass trap and skeet load will penetrate 4" deep into flesh, and it will leave a baseball-sized hole in his chest. It can kill a bear, or a deer. It can blow the lock off a door and even blast a fist-sized hole through a car door!

    But at 25 feet, birdshot is, well, for the birds. Very little penetration.

    I like waterfowl loads. Large BBs, often copper-plated, over a heavy charge of gunpowder. They recoil just as much as buckshot in my opinion, and they're usually only available in 3" shell lengths (which is slightly less than 100% reliable in my Mossberg, which needs to have the ejection slot opened up a bit more). If I cared enough to find and order the "ideal" home defense load, it would be a full-power 2.75" shell with something like a duck/goose load for the first 2 rounds, followed by #4 buckshot the next two, then two rounds of 1 or 0 buck, then a slug or two.

    Personally, I think companies ought to re-design their 12 gauge shotguns to handle the short little shells that are less than 2" long reliably, and then produce such ammo without the long shock-absorbing wad that just wastes space for defensive purposes, and that way our 20" barreled riot guns would all hold 9 rounds instead of 6.
     
  7. Bulldawg182

    Bulldawg182 Active Member

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    I forgot to ask you which shotgun you bought? And, which Kahr did you buy? You and I seem to be on a parallel course. :lol:
     
  8. Sine Nomen

    Sine Nomen New Member

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    I Bought a Mossberg 500. I already owned a PM9, which was to blame for the trip. (I am having it looked at after we both got thrown into the pool.) I have to go pick up the Kahr today, so we'll see if I end up with anything else. (It will be the last one, I promise.)
     
  9. Bulldawg182

    Bulldawg182 Active Member

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  10. Bulldawg182

    Bulldawg182 Active Member

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    Here's the summary on 12 ga. ammo from the above article:

    For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

    Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

    In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.
     
  11. Sine Nomen

    Sine Nomen New Member

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    From what I've been reading my basic conclusions are this: Anything that comes out of the end of a shotgun with enough energy to stop someone WILL have plenty of energy to punch through a wall and greatly upset my neighbors. Birdshot, while still being able to overpenetrate has much lower stopping power.

    It looks as though I'll be loading with #00 or #1 Buckshot and being darn sure of my aim.
     
  12. M249

    M249 New Member

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    Always a good idea!
     
  13. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter New Member

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    Here you go:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon's_Breath

    If you are using this for home defense, you may want to consider using Aguila's mini-shells. They're about 1.5 inch long & carry a mix of 00 buck & a slight smaller size shot. The benefit is low recoil and instant doubling of your magazine. Test them at the range before placing them into service. I found with my Benelli Nova tactical, they tended not to eject correctly... some guns need to be modified to use them properly.

    I have a link on my work computer to some really interesting 12 guage rounds. I'll post it here and PM you on Monday. Someone once said buying shells for a 12 gauge was like searching for bad internet porn... it's amazing what you can put in there!
     
  14. Sine Nomen

    Sine Nomen New Member

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  15. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter New Member

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  16. gsusnake

    gsusnake Token Liberal Hippie

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    They claim that it's "less than lethal", yet talk about a wound cavity the size of a grapefruit. :shock: