What's Good Enough For Casual Gun Owner?

Discussion in 'Training' started by gunsmoker, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    what do you all think is a good shooting test or course of fire to determine whether a casual gun owner is competent in using a handgun for home or vehicle defense?

    When I say "casual gun owner," I mean a person who owns a gun and has owned a gun for a number of years, but doesn't go shooting as a hobby and doesn't really like practicing with a gun.

    He or she knows that it is the responsible thing to do--to take it out at least every couple years and fire it, clean and re-oil it, and reload it with new ammo (not literally new, but ammo from the box in the closet, ammo that hasn't been carried, exposed to extreme temps, or moisture, or gun oil.)

    What would a good slow fire target look like? How many rounds should hit in what size group, at what distance, over what period of time ?

    How about rapidfire, bringing up the gun from the low ready position and firing five rounds as fast as possible while still getting center-of-mass hits?
    What distance from the target should they do this?
    What time limit is reasinable for a "casual gun owner" to get off 5 effective shots?
    What size group would you want them to achieve?

    ( Remember, we're talking about people that only go shooting every few years and are not gun enthisiasts or hobbyists.)
     
  2. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    Why? Seriously, various states try to regulate/legislate that issue and that is an infringement on the 2A.
     

  3. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    None is needed. Not trying to be a jerk, but if your only purpose for owning a gun is home defense, then most likely any shooting is going to be at close range - close enough for point shooting. Vehicle defense is also likely going to be very close range.

    In situations like these, I don't believe it is as much of an issue of aiming and precision shooting as it is the mental attitude and commitment to pull the trigger. That is something that is difficult to train for (for most people) and basic shooting tests aren't going to help much.
     
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  4. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    I got tons of those bullets. You would be a damn fool to get in their way when they go bang.
     
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  5. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    They would not need the training that most people who carry obtain on their own. A target with holes in shot at less than 12 feet would be good enough for home defense or auto defense. Most people who have a firearm fired on a target once every couple of years would be ok under the conditions you describe.
     
  6. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Uh, who said anything about state-imposed mandatory training or qualification?
    Paranoid much?
     
  7. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Sure, point shooting might be just fine.
    But without practice, some people can't "point shoot" and keep most of their hits on an adversary's body. At least not while shooting very rapidly.

    So, how accurate, and how fast, is good enough?

    Clearly, if the person takes 5 full seconds to fire 5 shots and only scores 1 hit and 4 misses, that would be unacceptable. Not good enough.
     
  8. Glockenator

    Glockenator Active Member

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    From the OP, I also took "to determine whether a casual gun owner is competent in using a handgun for home or vehicle defense?" as implying that it would be for something required by the government, which could be training or a qualification. Or were you talking about some voluntary certification? Like a CCW badge? :mrgreen:
     
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  9. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I'm talking about a self-assessment, or assessing the skill level of one another, privately, not involving the government.
    Notice I didn't say this was related in any way to a carry permit-- not a Georgia GWL or any other state's CCW, CWP, or whatever that state has.
    The people I'm talking about likely won't be permit holders, and in many places they don't need to be just to keep a gun in the glove box of their car, or at work, or at home.

    If you're a casual runner, and somebody asks you "can you run a 5K" and your answer is "Sure!" but the truth is it would take you 50 minutes and you'd do a lot of walking to catch your breath, you're not a real runner.

    If you want to know if you're a competent swimmer, you might take a test to see if you can swim 200 meters without stopping, in a rather generous time limit of something like 5 minutes. You'd also probably want to be able to, on command and with no preparation, dive to the bottom of a 12-foot deep pool and retrieve an object off the bottom. And you should be able to tread water for 10 minutes without getting out of breath, and you should be able to float without using your arms or legs. If you can't do all those things, you probably can't say you're a competent swimmer, even if you don't wear water wings at the beach and can propel yourself across your subdivision pool without struggling.
     
  10. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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  11. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    Nope. That's about the only place I ever hear that specific question. As for training. Freemen get to decide for themselves.
     
  12. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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  13. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    UTI, take a chill pill.
    This thread isnt about how to infringe your rights.
    Scrape some of that tinfoil off your helmet.
     
  14. Don27

    Don27 Member

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    I’ve had these courses in my phone forever, but I can’t say I’ve used them a ton. I did take some cardboard and cut out all of these different diameter circles. That way I could pull them out at the range and sharpie them on a target. It’s a starting point....

    ~SHOOTING COURSE~

    1.) LAPD Retired Officer Course
    10 shots at a silhouette / 100%
    7 yards
    No time limit

    2.) NRA Basic Pistol
    5 shots within a 9" circle / 100%
    - 3 times
    5 yards
    No time limit

    3.) NRA Def. Pistol 1- Pro-Marksman
    5 shots within a 12" circle/ 100%
    - 4 times
    7 yards
    15 secs per 12"/ timeout / again

    4.) Speed Drill
    5 shots within a 5" circle- 5 times
    5 yards
    5 seconds per 5"/ timeout/ again

    5.) Accuracy Is Final Drill
    2 mags w/ 6 rounds each at a
    B-27 silhouette target
    15 yards
    20 seconds total
    Max points is 120.
    Grade yourself.
     
  15. Don27

    Don27 Member

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  16. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    Seriously? Again, just who the blazes are you? In today's environment if you can't see that this question is loaded and coincides with the Anti-2A agenda then I wonder deeply about you.
     
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  17. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    As do most of us.
     
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  18. Glockenator

    Glockenator Active Member

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    I ain't sayin' a thang. :mrgreen:

    I was just trying to get clarification of the meaning and intent of the OP question.
     
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  19. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    This. Casual or otherwise, if you don't have the mindset to pull the trigger, it doesn't matter how fast or how accurate you may or may not be. An overwhelming surge of adrenaline can provide that mindset, albeit temporarily - fight or flight syndrome.
     
  20. tmoore912

    tmoore912 Just a Man

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    It's too bad we can't have a decent conversation about basic firearm handling and marksmanship in the Training forum of a pro 2nd Amendment website. SMH

    Claude Werner (the Tactical Professor) likes to use Gila Hayes’ 5 X 5 Drill 5 times to determine basic competence with a given firearm. It can be used as a "Lightbulb Moment" to help shooters.

    "The folks at Lucky Gunner made up a nice PDF target with instructions you can print out and take to the range."
     
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