so you'd of pulled your gun on him if you had it on you at the time? pretty sure that could of turned ugly for you as it didn't sound like your life was in any type of danger other than some hurt feelings.
What would you have done?
OK, so here's the scenario: I live downtown in a loftaminium. We have a homeless shelter 1/2 a mile down the road, and the walking traffic that passes us daily is not what I'd consider "model citizen" candidates. Anyway, a few months ago, a homeless guy passed me in our secured hallway, going up the stairs, towards the condos. It seemed odd at the time, middle of the day, but I figured one of my neighbors had enlisted some day labor help and let him in. 30 minutes later, I had to go down to the garage to get something out of my car, and here is this guy snooping around. At that point I knew he was up to no good. So I asked him what he was doing there. He answered something unintelligible, and I told him he needed to leave. He proceeded to get belligerent with me, giving me some BS story and telling me I needed to pay him some money or he wasn't going to leave. Something wasn't right with this guy - drugs, mental illness, whatever, but all I knew was he wasn't in Kansas anymore, so to speak. So I told him again, in no uncertain terms he needed to leave. I wasn't armed at the time (last time BTW), so I told him I was going to call the police. I sprinted up the stairs to get my gun and cell phone. When I got back, he had left.
Turns out the dirt bag had slept on my neighbors rooftop deck and had made a mess of the place. Apparently I had caught him as he was leaving. Our entire condo is secure with door codes to access the property. We have no idea how he got in. He went all through our building - the rooftop access is way in the back and I caught him in the front. Anyway, I guess I did the right thing, because he left, but it still has me wondering; what if I had been armed at the time? What if he had been armed? It was a situation where I can fully imagine pulling a weapon on him had I had one at the time. I suppose, upon seeing a gun, he would have left immediately, but who knows? Like I said, he wasn't "right".
What would you have done? What would you have done if you were armed at the time? What does the law say about this? Does the castle doctrine apply to the common areas of a condo?
Turns out the dirt bag had slept on my neighbors rooftop deck and had made a mess of the place. Apparently I had caught him as he was leaving. Our entire condo is secure with door codes to access the property. We have no idea how he got in. He went all through our building - the rooftop access is way in the back and I caught him in the front. Anyway, I guess I did the right thing, because he left, but it still has me wondering; what if I had been armed at the time? What if he had been armed? It was a situation where I can fully imagine pulling a weapon on him had I had one at the time. I suppose, upon seeing a gun, he would have left immediately, but who knows? Like I said, he wasn't "right".
What would you have done? What would you have done if you were armed at the time? What does the law say about this? Does the castle doctrine apply to the common areas of a condo?
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I also see no need to pull a weapon in the situation described. That being said, if you're armed, you can be more confident in helping said person off the property--and if he continued to be beligerent and not responding to your request to leave, that's when you call the cops and let them deal with it, maybe even considering trespassing charges. Another good reason to keep a cell phone, as well as gun on you at all times, imo. Given the circumstances, you did the best you could with the situation. :righton:
the question is would the jury believe you were in reasonable fear of whatever
THE question is why didn't you have your weapon on you? I noticed your (last time BTW) comment. Hopefully, you'll NEVER go anywhere without it again. Except for my hrs at work, I ALWAYS have either my .45 or 9mm ON ME. When I get to the truck after work and leave, it's on me.
In addition to what you did, I would have had my cellphone and gun with me before going out the door.
I don't know that you would have been justified in drawing your weapon in that situation. It was a good experience for you though because it reinforced what you already knew.....don't leave home without it. 
I don't even go out in my backyard w/out at least dropping my pocket pistol in my pocket.....you just never know.....I think you handled it well, though FWIW.
Also, you might want to contact the other people that live in your building and let them know what happened so whoever left something open for this guy to get in won't do it again (if you haven't done this already, that is).
I don't even go out in my backyard w/out at least dropping my pocket pistol in my pocket.....you just never know.....I think you handled it well, though FWIW.
Also, you might want to contact the other people that live in your building and let them know what happened so whoever left something open for this guy to get in won't do it again (if you haven't done this already, that is).
I agree, I'm in no way advocating having shot the guy. But I have to say it was quite alarming; the fact that he had already broken in, caused property damage to my neighbors rooftop deck (he tried to start a fire up there using the stuffing from their deck furniture), had been on our property for some time, been all through our building, then refused to leave. Add the fact that the guys was either on drugs or should have been, and was very belligerent and threatening in his demeanor, well, you get the picture....
We have since installed security cameras. I just hope he doesn't try to come back.
We have since installed security cameras. I just hope he doesn't try to come back.
I am still curious - does the castle doctrine apply to common areas of a condo, such as a secured hallway or garage, or is it solely within the threshold of my unit's front door?
I'm taking a wild guess here... solely within the threshold of your unit. Ideally, you would have not confronted him and simply called the fuzz to report a suspicious character on secured, private property. You didn't witness a crime so not sure what you could hold him for while the fuzz arrives. I think you could, at most, be a good witness and possibly follow the man out while on the phone with the fuzz to help them find him.jklotz said:I am still curious - does the castle doctrine apply to common areas of a condo, such as a secured hallway or garage, or is it solely within the threshold of my unit's front door?
JMO, but this goes hand in hand with, don't start something if you're not prepared for the consequences. If the trespasser had produced a weapon after being called out, it would have been pretty embarrassing to have to run for your life. Best to remain silent and call the cops from the condo.jreXD9 said:THE question is why didn't you have your weapon on you?
Thanks for the replies. In retrospect, I think I did the right thing. I couldn't sit in my condo and let some drugged out looney wander through our building while I waited on the cops. He was obviously there to steal, panhandle, intimidate, destroy property, case the place and who knows what else. He had already broken the law - breaking and entering, trespassing, tried to start a fire on a wood deck (isn't that arson?) - he had to be dealt with. Who knows how long it would have taken the cops to get there.pml said:JMO, but this goes hand in hand with, don't start something if you're not prepared for the consequences. If the trespasser had produced a weapon after being called out, it would have been pretty embarrassing to have to run for your life. Best to remain silent and call the cops from the condo.jreXD9 said:THE question is why didn't you have your weapon on you?
I do wish I had my gun at the time, however, I don't think I would have pulled it out. It's just that people like that are unpredictable. Had I had it, I would have escorted him off the property without having to leave the scene to get it and my phone. As it turns out, he left while I was gone, so I still had to spend 1/2 an hour going through the building making sure he wasn't hiding somewhere. I would have felt a lot better if I could have just escorted him out on the spot and known he was gone.
I also find it interesting how it happened when I least expected it, in a secure area, late morning and all that. Guess one can never let their gaurd down when they live a mile from Vine City....
FIFYjklotz said:pml said:I also find it interesting how it happened when I least expected it, in a secure area, late morning and all that. Guess one can never let their guard down [s:1enk6z4w]when they live a mile from Vine City[/s:1enk6z4w] PERIOD....
People tend to listen to guy carrying ax handles. Just sayin.....
I think you misunderstand the "castle doctrine" in Georgia. In some states, one must retreat before using force or sometimes just deadly force. Some of those states have made an exception while in one's own home, calling it the "castle doctrine."jklotz said:I am still curious - does the castle doctrine apply to common areas of a condo, such as a secured hallway or garage, or is it solely within the threshold of my unit's front door?
Georgia has never had a duty to retreat before using force, ever, regardless of whether you are in your living room or wandering around a park. The law that passed recently was merely a codification of the common law that has been in existence in Georgia dating back to the time when the courts served King George, and probably before that. The new law did add an immunity provision, which strengthened the concept, but "castle doctrine" really has no application here, as Georgia does not distinguish between your castle and anywhere else when it comes to a duty to retreat, or, in this case, the lack of such a duty.
I will say that given the way this came out, I am glad you were unarmed, as introducing a weapon would not have been justified and could have resulted in your arrest. I think you need to study the law on self defense a little more. It might help to take some training classes. There are several that are GCO Corporate Sponsors and can be found over there. Most will address when it is appropriate and legal in Georgia to draw and present.
+1 The only time a firearm should be presented is when the threat of deadly force is imminent. Pulling a firearm on someone simply because you feel they "aren't acting right" is extrememly unjustified, and you would have probably gone to jail. We don't carry to intimidate or force our will on others. We carry to protect the lives of ourselves and others. Judging by the OP, I didn't see that any real threat was present.Malum Prohibitum said:I think you misunderstand the "castle doctrine" in Georgia. In some states, one must retreat before using force or sometimes just deadly force. Some of those states have made an exception while in one's own home, calling it the "castle doctrine."jklotz said:I am still curious - does the castle doctrine apply to common areas of a condo, such as a secured hallway or garage, or is it solely within the threshold of my unit's front door?
Georgia has never had a duty to retreat before using force, ever, regardless of whether you are in your living room or wandering around a park. The law that passed recently was merely a codification of the common law that has been in existence in Georgia dating back to the time when the courts served King George, and probably before that. The new law did add an immunity provision, which strengthened the concept, but "castle doctrine" really has no application here, as Georgia does not distinguish between your castle and anywhere else when it comes to a duty to retreat, or, in this case, the lack of such a duty.
I will say that given the way this came out, I am glad you were unarmed, as introducing a weapon would not have been justified and could have resulted in your arrest. I think you need to study the law on self defense a little more. It might help to take some training classes. There are several that are GCO Corporate Sponsors and can be found over there. Most will address when it is appropriate and legal in Georgia to draw and present.
I think you guys are missing my point/intent. I had no interest in pulling a gun out. I've never pointed a gun at a living being in my life, and pray I never have to. I was simply curious as to how others would have handled the situation. Please keep in mind I wasn't being confrontational or argumentative, he was. The only thing I told the guy was "you need to leave now". I did not engage in conversation, despite his efforts to start an argument. I was firm, but calm.
I do wish I had my weapon on my side at the time, as this guy was clearly on drugs or crazy, possibly both. I felt quite vulnerable without it. Remember you weren't there, I was. My gut told me it could have escalated into a bad situation quickly, so I retreated, got my weapon and the phone, called the police, and went back down to find him gone. That was the best outcome, IMHO, given the circumstances.
FYI, here's what the guy looked like. Can't be certain, but he looked very similar:
http://castleberryhill.org/wpmu/contacts/public-safety/
And here's the crime statistics for the neighborhood, just in case you think I'm being paranoid:
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-crime-r ... 6295284936
I do wish I had my weapon on my side at the time, as this guy was clearly on drugs or crazy, possibly both. I felt quite vulnerable without it. Remember you weren't there, I was. My gut told me it could have escalated into a bad situation quickly, so I retreated, got my weapon and the phone, called the police, and went back down to find him gone. That was the best outcome, IMHO, given the circumstances.
FYI, here's what the guy looked like. Can't be certain, but he looked very similar:
http://castleberryhill.org/wpmu/contacts/public-safety/
And here's the crime statistics for the neighborhood, just in case you think I'm being paranoid:
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-crime-r ... 6295284936
You really will not know what you will do until you are actually confronted with the situation.
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