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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What was the BATF/ATF form I filled out when I purchased handgun from the gun store?

Shame on me for not remembering what the form was and double shame on me for not getting a copy.

What ever the form was does a buyer have to fill it out for a rifle/shotgun when purchased from a FFL?
 

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All firearms processed by or sold by an FFL will require you to fill out a 4473.
 

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Aberk said:
All firearms processed by or sold by an FFL will require you to fill out a 4473.
Nope. If the FFL is a gunsmith doing repairs on the gun and returning it to the person who had it repaired, no 4473 must be filled out.
 

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budder said:
Nope. If the FFL is a gunsmith doing repairs on the gun and returning it to the person who had it repaired, no 4473 must be filled out.
That is absolutely correct, but if you drop off your gun and send your wife or someone else to pick it up, a 4473 must be completed along with a NICS check or presentation of a GWL
 

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budder said:
Aberk said:
All firearms processed by or sold by an FFL will require you to fill out a 4473.
Nope. If the FFL is a gunsmith doing repairs on the gun and returning it to the person who had it repaired, no 4473 must be filled out.
My apologies. I meant processed to mean a gun that is transferred through the FFL. Like an online sale or sale from another state.

I guess transferred would have been a better choice of words than processed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What happens when the gun leaves a domestic gun factory?

Is the Gun factory a FFL in itself and then they just do a transfer between two different FFLs?
 

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Those guys have various types of manufacturer licenses. Don't know what record keeping / reporting they do.
 

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XD9SC said:
What happens when the gun leaves a domestic gun factory?

Is the Gun factory a FFL in itself and then they just do a transfer between two different FFLs?
Basically.
If the Feds get a request on a serial number, they can trace it to the manufacturer, the distributor and then the original selling dealer/purchaser.

For FFLs still in business, when they call in a background check, the call sales record/background check is suppose to be destroyed by the FBI after a period of time (dealer must always keep their copy) if the sale was approved, but the FBI makes and keeps a Digital Copy before destroying the record even though the law is suppose to prevent this. Any FFL that have sold or transfered a firearm must keep a record of the sale as long as they are in business, even used guns. If a FFL goes out of business, then they have to turn over their records to the BATF where they are kept indefinitely.
 

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XD9SC said:
What happens when the gun leaves a domestic gun factory?

Is the Gun factory a FFL in itself and then they just do a transfer between two different FFLs?
Type 1 vs type 10 or type 11 for importers.

A manufacturer would have a list of everything they made and where each item was sold. A local dealer would have a list of everything they bought and sold as well. If there is a question about where a gun came from, the BATF would call the manufacturer or importer then follow the records accordingly.

Wikipedia has a brief overview.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License
 

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Aberk said:
All firearms processed by or sold by an FFL will require you to fill out a 4473.
Not a C&R FFL selling a C&R gun to a non-licensee.
 

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Pawn shops require you to fill out the federal Form 4473 when you pick up your own gun later. Just holding it as collateral for the pawn loan is enough to trigger the dealer having to record the transaction as the "transferee" and when they give it back to you, YOU are the "transferee."

And now gun shops (at least Cherokee Gun & Pawn in Canton) is making everybody who uses them to ship a gun back to the manufacturer for repars ALSO fill out a Form 4473. Even if you're the exact same person who dropped off the gun a few weeks ago, and it was only going thru the FFL dealer because they can ship guns cheaper and with more options than individuals can.
 

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it is the form the Chinese (formerly Russians) will use to find out who owns guns when they invade us. :sly:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
phantoms said:
Basically.
If the Feds get a request on a serial number, they can trace it to the manufacturer, the distributor and then the original selling dealer/purchaser.

For FFLs still in business, when they call in a background check, the call sales record/background check is suppose to be destroyed by the FBI after a period of time (dealer must always keep their copy) if the sale was approved, but the FBI makes and keeps a Digital Copy before destroying the record even though the law is suppose to prevent this. Any FFL that have sold or transfered a firearm must keep a record of the sale as long as they are in business, even used guns. If a FFL goes out of business, then they have to turn over their records to the BATF where they are kept indefinitely.
For a FTF transaction between two private individuals of the same state no Form 4473 is required, at least that is my understanding. Is the seller under any legal responsibility to keep records of who he/she sold to or is it just knowing the person is allowed to have a firearm? Of course it is probably a good idea to keep records to cover you butt but is there any legal responsibility?
 

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GAGunOwner said:
Aberk said:
All firearms processed by or sold by an FFL will require you to fill out a 4473.
Not a C&R FFL selling a C&R gun to a non-licensee.
Just goes to show there are no easy answers. Kind of ridiculous.
 

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XD9SC said:
phantoms said:
Basically.
If the Feds get a request on a serial number, they can trace it to the manufacturer, the distributor and then the original selling dealer/purchaser.

For FFLs still in business, when they call in a background check, the call sales record/background check is suppose to be destroyed by the FBI after a period of time (dealer must always keep their copy) if the sale was approved, but the FBI makes and keeps a Digital Copy before destroying the record even though the law is suppose to prevent this. Any FFL that have sold or transfered a firearm must keep a record of the sale as long as they are in business, even used guns. If a FFL goes out of business, then they have to turn over their records to the BATF where they are kept indefinitely.
For a FTF transaction between two private individuals of the same state no Form 4473 is required, at least that is my understanding. Is the seller under any legal responsibility to keep records of who he/she sold to or is it just knowing the person is allowed to have a firearm? Of course it is probably a good idea to keep records to cover you butt but is there any legal responsibility?
From what I understand there is no legal responsibility to keep any records. I believe this is what the anti's refer to as the gunshow loophole whereby private sellers at a gunshow are not required to do background checks or maintain sales records. To my knowledge the burden is not on you to know the buyer can own a firearm(how would you check?), but if you do know they aren't allowed to own a firearm(friend/family member), you better not sell to them.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, as has already happened in this thread.
 

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GAGunOwner said:
Aberk said:
All firearms processed by or sold by an FFL will require you to fill out a 4473.
Not a C&R FFL selling a C&R gun to a non-licensee.
Instate only. Selling out of state it would still have to be transferred to a FFL, correct? There are other responsibilities a C&R FFL takes on. If you read the C&R material shipped with your license, it states when you sell a C&R weapon, you must include a document explaining that it's wrong to provide a minor with a gun, etc. Even buying or selling a C&R weapon FTF instate, you still have to record the sell and information on the person you bought/sold it from/to in your C&R ledger. Also, the BATF can require a meeting to examine your buy-sell ledger. You have to keep this ledger as long as you hold the C&R FFL, but once you no longer hold one you can destroy it. You don't have to record C&R eligible weapons you had before you became a C&R FFL in your ledger, but you do for any C&R eligible weapons you buy or sell once you become a C&R FFL, even if it's a FTF transaction instate.
 

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XD9SC said:
phantoms said:
Basically.
If the Feds get a request on a serial number, they can trace it to the manufacturer, the distributor and then the original selling dealer/purchaser.

For FFLs still in business, when they call in a background check, the call sales record/background check is suppose to be destroyed by the FBI after a period of time (dealer must always keep their copy) if the sale was approved, but the FBI makes and keeps a Digital Copy before destroying the record even though the law is suppose to prevent this. Any FFL that have sold or transfered a firearm must keep a record of the sale as long as they are in business, even used guns. If a FFL goes out of business, then they have to turn over their records to the BATF where they are kept indefinitely.
For a FTF transaction between two private individuals of the same state no Form 4473 is required, at least that is my understanding. Is the seller under any legal responsibility to keep records of who he/she sold to or is it just knowing the person is allowed to have a firearm? Of course it is probably a good idea to keep records to cover you butt but is there any legal responsibility?
You just have to have no reason to believe that the person is prohibited from posessing a firearm.

The easiest thing to do would be to ask to see ID and make sure the person is 18. Then ask them, "You can legally have a gun right?" If they say, "yes" sell them the gun.
 
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