What is a Tavern; how different from a restaurant?

Discussion in 'Places Off-Limits' started by frankr, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. frankr

    frankr Active Member

    1,122
    0
    36
    What is a tavern and how is it different from a restaurant? For example, I have been down to swing dances at the Graveyard Tavern before. They serve full blown meals and lots of people seem to be sitting at full-sized tables and eating. The DoR alcohol license says the business type is a tavern, so I am going to go out on a limb and say it may be off-limits for carry without the owners permission. What I am not sure about at all is when something goes from a restaurant to a tavern.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

    11,832
    503
    113
    The title of the establishment has nothing to do with its legality. The place could be called "Drunk Off Your Ass Bar and Tavern of Ill Repute" and be a legal restaurant for carry purposes.

    This is where you want to look to see if the establishment is a restaurant. https://etax.dor.ga.gov/AlcoholRetailer/Default.aspx

    Also, if the establishment is open on Sunday, it's [s:2v81oy0m]a restaurant.[/s:2v81oy0m] not a bar but could be a tavern.

    If the establishment has a license type of tavern, club, lounge or cabaret, it = bar, and carry would require permission from the owner.
     

  3. cliffhanger

    cliffhanger Active Member

    1,021
    0
    36
    So DoR says it's a Tavern. The law says Tavern=Bar. That means you need permission from the owner...

    IANAL,
    Cliffhanger
     
  4. ookoshi

    ookoshi Moderator

    5,239
    14
    38
    That's not entirely accurate. Taverns can be open on Sunday, bars can't. DoR licenses things as taverns, clubs, cabarets, and all sorts of other categories other than simply "bar" or "restaurant." Most of them can be open on Sunday; many of them are prohibited without permission under current law.

    Checking the DoR search engine is the best way to be sure. The list that the legislators used to write the law is the same list as alcohol licensing categories. Now, the law doesn't say that one definition is the same as the other, if you do get arrested, who knows what might happen, but it's a safe place to start. Using the DoR website is a good way to CYA, as you have an official state of Georgia entity covering you.

    My current SOP is, I'll OC only if it's licensed as a restaurant and clearly operating as one. Otherwise, if it's licensed as a restaurant but primary serving alcohol, I'll CC. If it's licensed as a bar or tavern or other prohibited type of place, I choose a different place to eat if possible (unless I know the owner's given permission, but I am not aware of any places as of yet).
     
  5. BSCLibertarian

    BSCLibertarian I'm kind of a big deal

    5,243
    1
    38
    [​IMG]

    IANAL but I'd say you need permission....Business Type: Tavern
     
  6. frankr

    frankr Active Member

    1,122
    0
    36
    Thanks for posting the image!

    I thought that point was already covered at least a little. In the OP, I wrote "The DoR alcohol license says the business type is a tavern" :D

    The real question is a little different. Why is this a tavern and not a restaurant?

    I figure this discussion might be helpful as we start talking with our representatives in preparation for the next session. We are all taking them out to lunch again, no?

    Thoughts?
     
  7. BSCLibertarian

    BSCLibertarian I'm kind of a big deal

    5,243
    1
    38
    I honestly don't know what the difference between a Bar and Tavern is.....seems like exactly the same thing to me. The fact that there are two different licenses leads me to believe the State of GA sees them as two different things....however, as far as carrying goes, you need permission in either one IMHO.....based on the language in SB 308.

    (and I thought your OP was fairly clear too :))
     
  8. CountryGun

    CountryGun New Member

    7,594
    0
    0
    Was the 50% rule thrown out? It said that an establishment making more than 50% of its income from food was a restaurant regardless what they called it. Generally, places open on Sunday easily exceeded the 50% mark.
     
  9. three se7ens

    three se7ens New Member

    1,247
    2
    0

    50% is gone for carry purposes.
     
  10. jsmn4vu

    jsmn4vu New Member

    1,017
    0
    0
    That's a great resource, and well worth checking. One of my favorites has "bar" in its name, is open on Sundays, and has more of the "feel" of a bar than a restaurant, so I checked on that site. It's a restaurant! (WooHoo)
     
  11. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

    11,832
    503
    113
    It would appear so. If the establishment has a license type of tavern, club, lounge or cabaret, it = bar, and carry would require permission from the owner.
     
  12. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

    44,830
    186
    63
    I checked out the law, I would say you need permission from the owner just to be on the safe side.
     
  13. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

    11,832
    503
    113
    The only one that really affects me is the Brick Store Pub (Tavern) in Decatur. Twain's (Other) also may require permission. :x

    The Iberian Pig says "Other" :?:

    I'm pretty sure the Pig is legally a restaurant, and I'm still going to carry there.
     
  14. seajay

    seajay NRA Certified Instructor

    4,996
    0
    36
    The definition of a bar should not have been changed. A bar is a place that derives most of its revenue from the sale of alcohol. A restaurant is a place that derives most of its sales from food. There are a lot of places that are now off limits without permission that were perfectly fine after HB89. Perhaps getting bar removed from the list all together or at the very least changing the definition back to 51% should be a primary goal. Almost all of your “sports†type restaurants are labeled as taverns. This means they can be open on Sunday and serve alcohol but are off limits because of the stupid new law everyone wanted. The new law was poorly written from the start. While a lot of cleaning up was done prior to its passing it still needed a lot of work. This is only one part of it that needs to be fixed.
     
  15. seajay

    seajay NRA Certified Instructor

    4,996
    0
    36
    I'm pretty sure that "Other" would also fall under the "need permission" range. If someone wanted to make a case for it the bar definition is open ended enough for them to do so. The way the law reads if it's not labeled a restaurant then it can fall under the definition of a bar. It's the includes but not limited to that will get you in trouble every time. The same wording was used in the public gathering law IIRC. So what is an "Other"? It's not a restaurant!
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,427
    113
    :lol: We are much better off after the passage of SB 308 and the demise of the public gathering law, Seajay. Much. Much. Much.

    Sorry it was not perfect, but nobody has given GCO dictatorial control over the legislative process - yet! :wink:
     
  17. RickN

    RickN New Member

    307
    0
    0
    Check them out before assuming -- the four sports bars I go to are all licensed as restaurants. So, I can go there and carry and not have a cop decide that the patio outside is a "public gathering". I'm batting 1000 with the "stupid new law".
     
  18. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

    13,610
    155
    63

    +1

    It's surprising how many "sports bars" are licensed as a restaurant.

    After playing on the DoR site, there are several places that I was expecting to be a bar, but aren't.

    Good Ole Days
    The Highlander
    Highland Tap
    Blind Willie's This one really surprised me.
    OLDE BLIND DOG
     
  19. ookoshi

    ookoshi Moderator

    5,239
    14
    38
    Been to both of those places after SB-308 while carrying. :)

    Highland Tap's not open for lunch on weekdays any more, makes me very sad. Their burgers were probably the best in Atlanta, competing with H&F.
     
  20. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

    13,610
    155
    63

    H&F ???