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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all... I'm new here, new to CCW, and have already learned a lot - Thanks!

My question... Say I'm standing in line at a QuickTrip, carrying concealed. The guy in front of me pulls a pistol and proceeds to hold up the cashier.

As a license holder... Does the law allow me to:

Do nothing until?

Stick my weapon in the small of the robber's back and tell him to drop his gun?

Catch him by surprise (by placing a .40" hole in the back of his head).


Hopefully something like this will never happen but, if it should, I'd like to know my options (without spending a fortune on legal defense).

Thanks in advance for your advice.
 

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Howdy Texan!

Welcome to the forum. By the way, I loved Texas.

Please read this:

O.C.G.A. § 16-3-21
Use of force in defense of self or others; evidence of belief that force was necessary in murder or manslaughter prosecution

(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:

(1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;

(2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or

(3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.

(c) Any rule, regulation, or policy of any agency of the state or any ordinance, resolution, rule, regulation, or policy of any county, municipality, or other political subdivision of the state which is in conflict with this Code section shall be null, void, and of no force and effect.

(d) In a prosecution for murder or manslaughter, if a defendant raises as a defense a justification provided by subsection (a) of this Code section, the defendant, in order to establish the defendant's reasonable belief that the use of force or deadly force was immediately necessary, may be permitted to offer:

(1) Relevant evidence that the defendant had been the victim of acts of family violence or child abuse committed by the deceased, as such acts are described in Code Sections 19-13-1 and 19-15-1, respectively; and

(2) Relevant expert testimony regarding the condition of the mind of the defendant at the time of the offense, including those relevant facts and circumstances relating to the family violence or child abuse that are the bases of the expert's opinion.
Just click on the yellow tabs at the top of the forum that says "GUN LAWS." Also, you can take a look at current case law, regarding these laws, and also they even have a layman's version for those of us that do not speak legalese.

I am NOT an attorney and this is NOT legal advise.

If you are in the situation that you described, and you can prove that you reasonably believed that the only way that you could safely stop the forcible felony/aggravated assault and maybe even an attempted murder or murder that was taking place in front of you was by pulling your firearm and shooting him/her, then the law allows for you to do just that.

None of this is absolute, and you can always get a DA that may try and file charges on you. If you pull your weapon and shoot someone in self-defense, or in self-defense of another, you should always be aware that you could face $50,000 in legal fees to prove you are innocent, and a DA that is willing to file charges on you.

Also, talk to an attorney and ask them what they would advise you to do if you did shoot someone in self-defense. Listen to the experts. They may just save your butt when it comes to a self-defense shooting. Remember you also have the right to not incriminate yourself, the 5th amendment.

I hope that helps.
 

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here is how I feel about it:

Theres always the law and cases that provide an idea on how future courts will uphold that law.

But if I feel my life is in danger, someone will go home in a body bag. Bottom line, if you feel your life is in danger YOU decide what your next step is. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not legal councel of any kind, but I refuse to stand down to someone threatening my life at all. Theres plenty of cases where customers have shot and killed an attempted robber, and no charges filed. But you need to be 100% sure that your life or the person in front is in danger.

Someone will give you this pretty lil quote: I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

As much as it can be repetitious, it's not far from the truth.
 

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and the license, whether you have one or not does not really matter in this scenario
 

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IANAL. YMMV.

I'd say all of the above.
 

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Editingfx said:
and the license, whether you have one or not does not really matter in this scenario
But he needed a license to carry.... Or, what am I missing?
i think what the post was saying is that... would you rather keep your illegally carried weapon holstered and die or save your life and possibly others while risking being charged with a crime of carrying concealed handgun?

In my mind, based on the OP a few things would go into what I would do:

1. Who I was with
2. Who the bad guy was with
3. What are the odds of him killing someone or just taking the money and leaving.

For example:

First off.. i know there are dumb criminals but for one to rob a store with customers at his back and the cashier to his front is extra dumb. Most crime scene videos I have seen have a shady looking guy or two milling around by the pork rinds and colt45 until most (ideally all) of the patrons have left.

If I was standing in line with my wife and the guy in front of me pulls a gun and points it at the cashier or other person and I was confident he did not have a buddy behind me keeping an eye out... I would have no issue ending him.

If I was by myself and he did not appear that he wanted to blast anyone (brandishing weapon tucked into pants or pocket versus pointing) I would probably let him take the money and go.

I do not have any need or want to be a hero. The clerks at stores are trained to give the bad guy what he/she wants... losses from robbery and theft are built into budgets with most companys. If the guy just wants money, give it to him and no innocents get hurt.

I will defend myself and my own if necessary, but I will gladly let a bad guy go if there is even the slightest chance of a good guy getting hurt or killed by my intervening.
 

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Editingfx said:
and the license, whether you have one or not does not really matter in this scenario
But he needed a license to carry.... Or, what am I missing?
O.C.G.A. § 16-3-24.2
Immunity from prosecution; exception


A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, 16-3-23, 16-3-23.1, or 16-3-24 shall be immune from criminal prosecution therefor unless in the use of deadly force, such person utilizes a weapon the carrying or possession of which is unlawful by such person under Part 2 or 3 of Article 4 of Chapter 11 of this title.
 

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CoffeeMate said:
Editingfx said:
and the license, whether you have one or not does not really matter in this scenario
But he needed a license to carry.... Or, what am I missing?
[quote:1l19el74]O.C.G.A. § 16-3-24.2
Immunity from prosecution; exception


A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, 16-3-23, 16-3-23.1, or 16-3-24 shall be immune from criminal prosecution therefor unless in the use of deadly force, such person utilizes a weapon the carrying or possession of which is unlawful by such person under Part 2 or 3 of Article 4 of Chapter 11 of this title.
[/quote:1l19el74]

Which translates into what I said:

Option 1: Let the bad guy do what he wants and possibly be hurt or killed yourself
Option 2: Deal with the threat and prepare yourself to reap the consequences of not being licensed
 

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i think oldschool hit it on the head. If you're carrying illegally, don't expect to walk away from killing the perp without being charged for illegally carrying a firearm. Chances are, someone is going to ask, can I see your permit, and you're going to shrug... again I'd rather be alive than dead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm the OP...thanks for your insights!

To clarify:

1. Although very experienced with firearms, I only recently decided to obtain my license (I do have it).

2. I've been carrying now, concealed, for about a month. I'm sure the new will wear off but, when you first start carrying a Glock into a "Walmart" it really gets you thinking about what you'd do if...

In all respects, I find it to be a very big responsibility... And I just want to be sure that if, God forbid, the situation ever arises where I am presented the opportunity to help someone, I am fully prepared to do the right thing.

I'm convinced that if the time ever did come, it would probably be when I least expected it... And there would be almost no time to make a decision that could effect you for the rest of your life.
 

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Either you are the sort of person that gets involved, looks out after your neighbor, and steps in to help save a life, or you are content with merely being a good witness (if you survive it). If that sounded biased, it was. :wink:

If someone's holding up a store clerk at gunpoint, that seems to me to be a forcible felony. A lot of store clerks are getting killed for complying, too. From there, you just have to act according to the exact situation, if you're so inclined.
 

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BANG!

(Turn and look for more threats.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
AV8R said:
Either you are the sort of person that gets involved, looks out after your neighbor, and steps in to help save a life, or you are content with merely being a good witness (if you survive it). If that sounded biased, it was. :wink:

If someone's holding up a store clerk at gunpoint, that seems to me to be a forcible felony. A lot of store clerks are getting killed for complying, too. From there, you just have to act according to the exact situation, if you're so inclined.
If I wasn't the sort of person that was willing to get involved, I wouldn't be carrying.

Okay, we seem to have established that the law allows for a license holder to "go bang" under the circumstances I described. I'm cool with that.

That brings up the next question... If I shoot a person who is pointing a gun at another person, what are the odds of that person instinctively pulling his trigger as a result of my shot?

I'd be totally okay with wasting a "bad guy" but, I'd have a very hard time living with the knowledge that my action might have caused a "good guy" to get shot... By someone who might have only taken the money and ran. How do you reconcile that?
 

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Big Texun said:
That brings up the next question... If I shoot a person who is pointing a gun at another person, what are the odds of that person instinctively pulling his trigger as a result of my shot?
You've been watching a lot of action movies.
 

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GAGunOwner said:
Big Texun said:
That brings up the next question... If I shoot a person who is pointing a gun at another person, what are the odds of that person instinctively pulling his trigger as a result of my shot?
You've been watching a lot of action movies.
Yeah, I mean there is video out there of bad guys doing exactly what was described, and then being shot by a civilian with a gun. I haven't seen one fire due to being shot, like a reflex action.

There is proof out there that very hard blunt force trauma to the head, can cause someone to bite down very hard, but I'm not sure if the correlates to the trigger finger. I'd say you are safe, and don't really have to worry about that.

Depending on where you shot someone, if you hit some in the head, and it happens to be in the right spot, it should be a lot like "lights out." The body falls to the floor instantaneously like a sack of rocks. Complete loss of motor function. Their finger will probably not be pulling the trigger if the shot is placed in the correct spot.

I hear the base of the skull, top of the neck is the official "lights out" spot. The same with behind the ear. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look at some anatomy charts.
 

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If I were in line behind the armed robber intending to buy a Snickers bar and pay with a $20 bill, I'd ask him to leave the cashier enough money to make change for me.
 

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gunsmoker said:
If I were in line behind the armed robber intending to buy a Snickers bar and pay with a $20 bill, I'd ask him to leave the cashier enough money to make change for me.
High capacity $20 bills are too dangerous to be used for buying candy bars unless you are military or LEO.

:runaway:
 
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