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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is the ammo that breaks into 3 pieces when entering the target. I have read about ppl using the .22 lr ones with great success for hunting small game. The stories claim that it is very effective at killing the animal almost instantly because it causes destruction in 3 wound channels.

How effective do you think this would be as a 9mm or larger HD round?

They are cheaper than most JHP rounds,

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=282521
 

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My Criteria

You say it's less expensive than most quality defensive JHP ammo? That's good. I don't like to carry ammo that I haven't fired at least 50-100 rounds of in practice, to ensure reliability, and I can't afford to do that with some exotic rounds.

I like the concept. I have fired some of those into wet phone books in .22 LR caliber. I don't recall that they performed in any exceptional way-- I think the would channels were really close to one another. I would seriously consider them for self-defense if I could test some in 9mm. I would like to shoot them into water-soaked bundles of newspaper, a foot thick, with a 1/2" sheet of plywood about an inch below the surface, to similate the bullet hitting a rib bone.

If the fragments penetrate at least 5" deep and if they do create a wide, ugly would channel, that would be all I need to see.

Again, that's assuming they are reliable in my gun and have acceptable accuracy to approximately the same point-of-aim as most other conventional ammo.
 

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You do not want any of your HD or SD round breaking apart inside of your attacker.

Penetration is absolutely key to destroying vital organs. If your projectile breaks apart when it enters their body it probably will not penetrate far enough to do serious damage.
 

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forgot to add:

you need a round that can penetrate at least 12" from an odd/oblique angle (through an arm + clothes + ribs into the lungs/heart)

Bottom line: I would not trust it with my life.
 

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Rammstein said:
forgot to add:

you need a round that can penetrate at least 12" from an odd/oblique angle (through an arm + clothes + ribs into the lungs/heart)

Bottom line: I would not trust it with my life.
I will second this. I feel a 9mm is borderline to being not enough gun and having a 115grn round that breaks into three pieces will likely not have enough mass to get the aforementioned penetration. I personally use Remington Golden Sabers 124grn +P, but wouldn't hesitate to use Winchester Rangers, Speer Gold Dots, or Federal Hydrashocks in the +P variety.
 

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Can you say JUNK!!!!!
 

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:goodpost:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
OK, so we have 2 test subjects, I mean volunteers that we can shoot these at Saturday morning.

I'll bring the ammo :)
 

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I want ammunition with good, quality construction that retains as much of the 230 grains of weight as possible.

If you are starting out with less than that, you are already at a disadvantage. Do your really want your bullet (pieces) to weigh even less?
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
I want ammunition with good, quality construction that retains as much of the 230 grains of weight as possible.

If you are starting out with less than that, you are already at a disadvantage. Do your really want your bullet (pieces) to weigh even less?
Sure, if they're made of Semtex :twisted:
 

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budder said:
Malum Prohibitum said:
I want ammunition with good, quality construction that retains as much of the 230 grains of weight as possible.

If you are starting out with less than that, you are already at a disadvantage. Do your really want your bullet (pieces) to weigh even less?
Sure, if they're made of Semtex :twisted:
With a remote detonator?! :D
 

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Marikhal said:
budder said:
Malum Prohibitum said:
I want ammunition with good, quality construction that retains as much of the 230 grains of weight as possible.

If you are starting out with less than that, you are already at a disadvantage. Do your really want your bullet (pieces) to weigh even less?
Sure, if they're made of Semtex :twisted:
With a remote detonator?! :D
It'd be kind of useless otherwise. "HAHA! Now, if you let me hook this AED up around your wound site, I will win!" doesn't have quite the oomph as "Now you go boom!"
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
I want ammunition with good, quality construction that retains as much of the 230 grains of weight as possible.

If you are starting out with less than that, you are already at a disadvantage. Do your really want your bullet (pieces) to weigh even less?
Hmmmmmmmm well now, I will put my 127+P+ against a 230 any day. I have shot both and shoot them far better than average. With the 9MM I have more bullets that I can shoot before reloading, faster shot to shot time and before anyone says 9MM doesn't kill people I can show you where the 45ACP doesn't either. I know a guy that will be down here in Georgia in Nov. that is post two months from a 45 ACP through the chest, and already doing two mile runs, and total work outs. Will be back in full blown BJJ/MMA and SWAT Stacks with in a month.

On the other hand which ever caliber you choose it does not need to be breaking into pieces. It needs to stay a projectile for it's length of travel in order to get deep enough to destroy vital organs. Everyone of these wonder bullets are junk and sold by a great sales pitch. Winchester Ranger, Blackhills, Gold Dot are still the top of the line ammo choices regardless of your caliber choice in a handgun.
 

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9mm and .45 do not kill people?

Maybe I should get another caliber.
 

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Firearmz said:
I know a guy that will be down here in Georgia in Nov. that is post two weeks from a 45 ACP through the chest, and already doing two mile runs, and total work outs. Will be back in full blown BJJ/MMA and SWAT Stacks with in a month.
I am genuinely curious. Was the round FMJ or something else? What was its path? Did it hit anything important?

I am thinking, for example, that any lung perforation might preclude 2 mile runs so soon, even if this had been a wimpy, tiny, puny, baby, little 127 grain 9mm. :D

But I am not a doctor, so please give us the details.
 

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I got a good laugh out of a gun store employee the other week saying that the 9mm didn't have enough "knock down power", thats why he carried a 45. Sorry, but unless you are carrying around a S&W 500 or another hunting revolver you aren't going to have any "knock down power." Really that is just hollywood BS but you really need to go to a rifle or shotgun for real stopping power.

I am not saying a pistol will not get the job done. As long as you have ammo that gets the 12" of penetration and have good shot placement you should be able to stop the attacker, but drugs can do wondrous things to a persons pain threshold.
 

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Jmark said:
I got a good laugh out of a gun store employee the other week saying that the 9mm didn't have enough "knock down power", thats why he carried a 45.
My .45 will flip a buffalo end over end. Twice.
 

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My bad guys I said two weeks it was two months, sorry.
 
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