Wet Sign Earns Wet Paint

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Nemo, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    With the area around it kept wet. 110 and not 220. 220 has a knack of kicking stuff away while 110 holds on.:mrgreen:
     
  2. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    I have not done an analysis of other states, but I can give a short history on what went wrong.

    We started out in GA with English common law. There actually was a law passed in the early days of statehood that adopted the English common law as it existed on a particular date in March 1776. At common law, an assault was an attempt to commit a battery. You swing at someone's face and miss, it's an assault. You connect with tissue, it's a battery. Simple enough.

    An aggravated assault was an assault made more serious by, usually, the type of weapon used. Some states called it an assault with a deadly weapon. You lunge at someone with a knife and miss, its an aggravated assault. (Logically, if you lunge at someone with a knife and connect, it would be an aggravated battery, but it is not necessarily so.) You should at somebody and miss, it is an aggravated assault. (Again, logically, if you shoot at someone and hit them, it should be an aggravated battery, but, again, not necessarily).

    Then along the way (and I mean the recent way), the legislature started piling on. Now, it doesn't matter whether you connect with your victim or not. In fact, the aggravated assault statute now says, as Gunsmoker has pointed out, that its an aggravated assault if it actually results in serious bodily injury. That's messed up, because an assault is supposed to be an attempt to commit a battery, not a successful battery. (Problem #1)

    In addition, plain old assault has been changed by the legislature to include when someone "reasonably apprehends immediately receiving an injury." We went from the subjective intent of the assaulter (intending to commit a battery) to the subjective perceptions of the victim. That's very bad for gun carriers, because it's common to have "victim's" who apprehend immediately receiving an injury if they see a gun at all. If the "perp" even touches the gun, that apprehension gets reasonable, and often turns into "he pointed the gun at me." It no longer matters if I attempt to do anything at all. If I touch my gun and you're scared, it's aggravated assault. (Problem # 2)

    And, as the recent posts in this thread go, we have gone from the subjective intent of the perp in his attack to the subjective apprehension of the attack of the victim. If I point my squirt gun at you and you think it's a gun (remember we're dealing with Karen), it doesn't matter that I am not attempting to do anything, and it doesn't matter that I know the worst I could do is wet your nose and have a good laugh, again I have committed aggravated assault. (Problem #3).

    Keep in mind that we have a misdemeanor crime of pointing a gun or pistol at another. In order to make sense of the two crimes, the courts have determined that the difference is whether the victim reasonably apprehends immediately receiving an injury. You point a gun at someone and they are not scared, misdemeanor. You point a gun at someone and they are scared, 20 years in prison. Consider what happens if you're at the range or hunting with others and you get swept. I don't know about you, but if that happens to me and I'm close enough to the person, I'll physically divert the muzzle from my direction. Any bystander would have to conclude that I must have reasonably apprehended immediately receiving an injury, or else why would I divert the muzzle? So the careless gun handler could get busted for aggravated assault even though he was a careless gun handler, his gun was unloaded, and his finger was nowhere near the trigger. My testimony is not even necessary to convict. (Problem #4).

    This is just a short overview, but it illustrates how completely messed up the aggravated assault statute has become. And it's gun people who suffer. If you're the street criminal committing rapes, robberies, and murders, there are plenty of crimes on the books to take care of you without relying on the weird aspects of aggravated assault.
     
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  3. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    Mythbusters showed a few years ago that a urine stream is not really a stream at all, and because of its discontinuities, will not conduct electricity -- at least not at those voltages. I suppose if you get high enough, you break down the air in between the urine drops and get continuity. Mythbusters was examining whether you can get a shock by peeing on an electric train rail -- I don't know off hand what those voltages are, but surely higher than household.
     
  4. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    I'll take your word for all of that. I'm not going to try it.:lol:
     
  5. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I could suffer the long version! :lol: Thanks!
     
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  6. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    Touche. I didn't really expect it to go that long when I started. That statute is vexatious, though, and should be fixed now, while it's legislatively possible/conceivable.
     
  7. Savannah Dan

    Savannah Dan Cross-drawer

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    Since we can't seen to get gun legislation passed, I would feel good about us as a group trying to get this fixed, and even though I vowed to never do it again, I would make the trip to Atlanta to testify for a bill to fix this mess.
     
  8. FrontSight

    FrontSight Well-Known Member

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    Livestock electric fence chargers can generate up to 10,000 volts, but the standard setting for cattle is 2,000-5,000 volts. It takes a minimum of 2000 volts at 540 ohms producing .1 Joule energy to penetrate 1 mm hide. Anything less the animal doesn't feel it. Piss is a stream for over 1 foot from the (human) source, A fence set up to keep hogs in is about 18-36 inches above ground for the top line. So unless someone has high pockets or a calloused tallywhacker, I would not recommend pissing on an electric fence.
     
  9. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Hey, how about some kind of meeting thing. Get 10, 20, 500 people together and go to Atlanta. Try to schedule a meeting with EACH legislator and put together a list of 4 or 5 talking points and have a group meet with each elected person or someone from their office to go over a 4 or 5 point list of things wanted and things opposed.

    If you are interested I think I know a guy who probably knows a guy or 12 who could likely give you more info on how to get this organized.

    You might want to publicize it as some kind of thing. I don't know, maybe Lobby Day would be a good name. Just a suggestion.

    Nemo
     
  10. Savannah Dan

    Savannah Dan Cross-drawer

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    I wouldn't have time to organize, but I could try my best to show up and support the effort.
     
  11. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like something those wild guys in the VCDL would do! :mrgreen:
     
  12. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Dayum, thats kind of a good idea. And I might know a guy who knows a guy . . ..

    Nemo
     
  13. phantoms

    phantoms Senior Mumbler

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    Electric fences run in the thousands of volts (just low amps). I'm sure you could get a shock by watering one. Heck, when I was a kid I touched one with a dry stick once and it shocked the hell out of me, rubber soled sneakers and all.
     
  14. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    If by watering one, you mean urinating on it, that was the point of the Mythbusters experiment. A urine "stream" is a continuous stream for a few inches in air, but with distance becomes a series of drops or globs. The air between those drops is a dielectric. The only way for the drops to conduct back to the source is if the voltage is high enough to break down the air in between each one and cause an arc. The breakdown voltage of air varies with humidity, but it's fairly flat at around 16,000 volts per inch for typical air (very dry air is much, much higher). So if you pee right on an electric fence (i.e., stand inches from it), yeah, maybe. But back to the original idea of electrifying a sign with standard household current, 240 volts is only going to be able to break down a couple hundredths of an inch on a good day. So that urine stream is going to have to be up close and personal to have the intended effect.
     
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  15. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Well, you make the video proving your theory on a 240 volt wire. I will just stay away from any fence. Thats why we have trees.

    Nemo
     
  16. Clark

    Clark Well-Known Member

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    Third rail voltages range from 600 to 750 volts typically. San Francisco and some international systems go up to 1000v, maximum practical is 1500v. Most new systems use 750v like Atlanta's MARTA.
     
  17. FrontSight

    FrontSight Well-Known Member

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    John, per my above post Quote " It takes a minimum of 2000 volts at 540 ohms producing .1 Joule energy to penetrate 1 mm hide" 1mm= 0.039 inches", increase the voltage to 5,000 v and that airgap increases.

    Your quote "the intended effect." will be death!

    Anyway, as an attorney, put your solicitor hat on, common 240 volt AC circuits are rated around 50 amps, In a perfectly grounded situation any thing over 100 ma (.1 amp) can stop a human heart. I would not recommend anyone boobytrap anything using any common line voltages without a current limiting device in the circuit. To do so is no different than rigging a shotgun to blast an intruder opening a window. That's what electric fence chargers are designed for, pulsed high voltage with the ability to jump an air gap and give a shock similar to static electricity, but not to kill a healthy animal or person.

    So bottom line do not use household voltages to electrify anything that may expose a trespasser to shock or family members to unintended consequences.
     
    phantoms likes this.
  18. Savannah Dan

    Savannah Dan Cross-drawer

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    I don't think I started peeing air gaps until I was 60.
     
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