Very Realistic Firearms Training for Children

Discussion in 'Firearm Related' started by Malum Prohibitum, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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  2. jsaund22

    jsaund22 Ninjaneering Computers

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    So is there some sort of backstory here? While I don't put anything past ISIS, I'm skeptical. There are several things I picked out in that video that were obvious "movie magic" if you know what you're looking for. What's the context?
     

  3. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    But how can we prohibit children coming here as refugees? Recall that it's "for the children!!!"

    Was that a selective fire Glock??
     
  4. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I do not have a backstory or context to share with you. Sorry.
     
  5. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    History teaches us that this is completely possible. At the end of WWII the Germans were training their Hitler Youth to fight Soviets in the streets. Boys as young as 8-9 were firing rockets, shooting sniper rifles, etc. Most were 12+ but there were instances of younger children fighting.
     
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    For this of us who do not know what we are looking for (please share how you know what you are looking for), and therefore, it is not so obvious, tell us about the obvious movie magic that causes you to believe this is not an ISIS propaganda video?

    What does your superior knowledge of movie magic lead you to believe this is, if not an ISIS propaganda video?
     
  7. jsaund22

    jsaund22 Ninjaneering Computers

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    First, I am not a video production professional. I am not involved in video production in any way. I just have a fascination for how special effects are created, and I watch several podcasts and shows about such things.

    Second, I'm not discounting that this is entirely real. ISIS has done much worse things than this, so this is totally in their wheelhouse.

    So let me see what I can pick out.

    The kill at 1:40 or so. When the prisoner is shot, no blood spatter anywhere. The followup closeup at 1:43 is a complete blood spatter gore-fest.

    (Not a half-bad mag change at 4:20...)

    The blood at 5:07 looks too bright-red to me. Maybe our resident medics or combat veterans can comment on whether a large pool of blood is really that color.

    The guy falling off the roof at 5:50 or so looks like a dummy to me. And the ground hit has been sped up, rotobrushed, something. Doesn't look natural.

    Plus, they always have the perfect camera angle. Multiple camera angles per scene, even, and you never see one of the other cameras. That indicates meticulous planning of camera placement and multiple takes per scene.

    Again, I'm not saying it isn't totally real, but those observations lead me to be a bit suspect.

    But that's just my opinion. I'm just some idiot on the internet - what do I know? :-k
     
  8. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    The shootings of some of the standing, talking, begging people looked fake
    .

    But all of the shootings of the corpses / unconscious persons on the ground looked realistic .

    Especially all those head shots on the guy that threw himself off the roof .

    I think it is entirely possible that we were seeing young terrorists in training, or as they would prefer to be called, Isis jihadists . They were shooting real guns at targets inside a shoot house .
    They were also instructed to shoot adult prisoners who have either been previously killed or rendered unconscious .
    Even though shooting a dead or unconscious person is not as traumatic as putting a real bullets into a crying , begging victim, it's still toughens the kids up and desensitizes them .

    It makes it easier for them to shoot living, running, screaming, begging people later in their terrorist careers .
     
  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Two different shots, one of which is not shown on camera.

    The "kill" at 1:40 or so is a chest shot. The sights are not lined up anywhere near his head. In fact, they end up there during the recoil. Chest shot.

    Then, at 1:44, the entry wound in the head is in the side/back of the head, above and behind the ear. They did not show that shot.

    These are two different shots.

    The blood splatter from the viewpoint of the camera angle at 1:40, would be to the right and down, well out of view of the camera.

    In other words, the shot you see on camera is the chest shot. The victim falls forward. His head is toward the corner to the right. Not shown on the film is a shot to the back of the head, behind the ear. The blood spray is not shown. The aftermath (soon thereafter) is shown.

    Different shot. Different wall. The original wall, to the left, is probably still relatively clean.
     
  10. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Did you see the video of the police shooting of the man by the red pickup at the convenience store who walks away when the police arrive? The officer thinks he is going for a weapon and shoots him?

    Compare the blood color from the body camera (nobody is yet contending that one is faked). There is plenty of it.

    Just my opinion, but at 5:07 looks like real blood to me.
     
  11. jsaund22

    jsaund22 Ninjaneering Computers

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    Like I said - I don't doubt for a moment that this could be real. Some of it just looked suspicious to me.
     
  12. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  13. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

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    Ever since I saw the video of Clint Eastwood walking beside JFK's car moments before the assassination I have become especially skeptical of video. Any video that appears edited should always be doubted for reality. That said child soldiers are a real thing and its possible that this video is real, but it has been highly edited.
     
  14. AtlPhilip

    AtlPhilip Proud GCO member.

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    Occham's Razor. It would be far easier for Isis to simply film this than to stage an elaborate production. And since we know that have absolutely no qualms killing to send a message it isn't like there is a moral impediment to using live victims.
     
  15. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    I believe this video is nothing but a faked ISIS propaganda video for many of the same reasons already mentioned. I'm sure ISIS has videos of kids doing actual killings though.

    Maybe the bigger question is would you hesitate to shoot that little bastard in the face and kill him if you ever ran into him? I mean, he's just a child, right?
     
  16. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    that poor child, who was led to do these horrible actions by evil adults, deserves a new life in America. So he and his young friends and his mom and uncles should all come over here to the USA as refugees.
    And no, they don't need to be "vetted" with any background check. That building they were using as a shoot house was the former Ministry of Vital Records building. The custodian of records was the 3rd hostage executed in the video. So there's no way to verify what they're telling us. We'll just take their word for it about who they are, what they want, what their intentions are, and their promise to respect our culture and obey our laws.
     
  17. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    It has absolutely been highly edited. Most of the ISIS videos are that way. They make very professional films. Lots of angles, set up multiple situations perfectly, edit out anything that does not fit, add a soundtrack. This is high quality stuff.

    I still think the shootings are real. The fact that some of the footage is missing (such as the head shot that occurs between 1:40 and 1:44 but is not shown or heard, that is, edited out) is because it did not show what ISIS wanted to show.

    Those crying, whimpering men who have given up hope are very, very good actors, though, if this is all fake. I wish movie actors in Hollywood were that good.
     
  18. gtmatt

    gtmatt Member

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    The slide looks to me to be clearly pointed at an upward angle at 1:38 (before the first depiction of the shot) and 1:39 (right after the angle switch, before the shot is shown the second time). So not at the chest, but at the head of the victim.

    The way the video is shown, I think it's supposed to show a single sequence of events where the victim is shot only once. I don't think there is a second, unseen shot. Even if there was a second shot after the victim fell, the blood on the wall doesn't look right -- too much too high on the wall. But I am certainly not an expert on blood spatter and gunshot wounds.

    To me, what they did show leads me to question whether the shootings are real. I understand your position though, it is plausible.
     
  19. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    What is Vice President Mike Pence doing to that girl?