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Discussion in 'Firearm Related' started by Adam5, Oct 24, 2016.
Thoughts or opinions on which is better?
Does anyone know what attorneys they use in GA?
I'm biased since I have US Law Shield and I endorse them. The big differences:
USCCA has different tiers, for different monthly costs. Coverage is capped at certain levels. USCCA also provides money for bail.
US Lawshield basically has only one tier for one monthly cost per person, and you can also subscribe for added services, ie, to cover kids, to cover other states when travelling. USLS does not have any caps, for criminal cases or for civil lawsuits. USLS does not provide for any bail money.
What worries me about programs like USCCA, is the caps. The Zimmerman criminal case cost over $2 million. And that is before any civil lawsuit has been brought, which will surely follow.
Main program lawyers for USLS are Matt Kilgo and Mike Hawkins, covering metro Atlanta. The program also uses contracted lawyers to cover the rest of the state.
So USCCA popped up on my Facebook feed this morning and I decided to do some digging. Looking at the US Law Shield website they lack clear public pricing information (don't make me fill out three pages of info just go get down to brass tax), their model seems very ala carte and severally lacking in the bail/expert witness end of things, and generally i get a bad vibe when comparing the two together.
Does anyone else have any other experience or a third option?
First, I am NOT an attorney, but I am about to start my 3rd year of law school and I use the program. For pre-paid legal services, US Law Shield is about as good as it gets. As far as not paying for witnesses/experts/etc., I know of NO pre-paid service that offers this. As far as pricing is concerned, it is on the website under the "legalese" (I know...the boring stuff that no one likes to read).
Here is what is on the website:
Thanks for the information.
I use US Law Shield. Picked it up maybe three years ago. At that time, pricing was easy to find on their site and it seemed harder to decipher the exact coverage I got with USCCA. Obviously that may have changed over time as I haven't compared them since.
I also picked up US Law Shield a few years ago. I've been happy so far. I've worked a GCO booth next to them on occasion.
I figure for the price, why not?
That's my line of thinking. Covering both me and the wife in every state we travel is about $30 a month. I get it, I don't like spending money. The biggest reason I was able to RETIRE at the age of 40 is that I don't SPEND money. BUT, in this case, it is a no brainer. *IF* you are involved in a shooting, how much money are ready to spend? How much CAN you spend? Just 3 days ago, someone that I KNOW shot and KILLED someone who broke into her home....at 8:30 in the morning. Even though all indications that what she did was justified, she still spent 6 hours in police custody. Would YOU want to do that without legal representation?
And no, I am not a shill for any of these services. I just personally think that it's not a great idea to carry a firearm for personal protection without some sort of "insurance" type of coverage.
I haven't studied the specifics of either of the two companies mentioned. In general, if it is a reimbursement plan, that means you are footing the bill completely up front, and you may also want to see if the reimbursement is contingent upon acquittal. Compare that to a plan that is actually helping pay for your defense from the outset.
I have the Armed Citizen Legal Defense Network. This is in no small part due to the people who make up the advisory board.
Interesting, I'll have to check it out and compare - I hadn't heard of them before.
NRA Boots USCCA from Annual Meeting as It Launches Competitive Insurance Products
Why am I less and less happy with the organization I am a life member of?
Every time I come close to being a member of the NRA, they work really hard at driving me away.
Ya 'no? Their conference, their rules. Don't we say that about property rights?
But yet, what's with the ham-fisted way they seem to handle things? Two weeks to go and, hey, oh well.
Would it kill the NRA to look like, ya 'no? they're working WITH ANY other group for the greater good?
US Law Shield program is not a reimbursement program. Research the other programs carefully. Some of them are quite good. I would also steer clear of those programs that are reimbursement programs.
As some know NRA rescinded the approval for USCCA to have a booth at the Atlanta Conference starting tomorrow. The reason is that they have come out with their own insurance plan called "Carry Guard". It sure looks plagiarized from USCCA with metal levels for membership, etc. Interestingly they will also be offering the most intense (their words) training for certification in concealed carry ever offered (ok......) with the new insurance. My problem is that the only detailed analysis I can find of this new insurance says:
"The policy holder gets reimbursed once charges are dropped or a not guilty verdict is rendered in a criminal or civil case. The plan also covers bail, a lawyer retainer, gun replacement, lost pay during court dates, psychological support and cleanup costs. A 24-hour hotline for reporting incidents, free coverage for spouses and a subscription to a new magazine called â€œNRA Carry Guard Magazineâ€ is also included, the Washington Free Beacon says.
Reimbursement is NOT a great way to go, you have to front the money for your own lawyer - bad idea. Looks like typical NRA these days, half arsed and a poor copy of existing services, endeavors, etc.
So it is in their financial interest for you to actually go to jail?
Unfortunately, yes. Also, they are "setting the bar" on CC Training. My problem with statements like that is when a smart prosecutor takes it and hammers a CC licensee with it because they did NOT have it. "Are you a member of the NRA?" "Do you have the NRA's CC insurance?" "Did you know about their CC training program that sets the bar for safety?" "Did you take the NRA training?" "Didn't you want to be safe and responsible?", etc. ad nauseaum.
NRA has made it rather difficult to find out what you are buying through their new "insurance". Unfortunately, they are not providing anything but reimbursement based on what I have been able to find so far.
From their FAQ section:
"The NRA Carry Guard insurance coverage provides civil liability protection and criminal defense reimbursement, civil defense legal fees, spousal protection, family member coverage for residential incidents and immediate access to attorney referrals. It also includes supplementary payments as needed for bail, criminal defense legal retainer fees, lawful firearms replacement, compensation while in court, psychological support and clean-up costs for any covered claim resulting from the use of a legally possessed firearm—including an act of self-defense. All benefits are insured."
"NRA Carry Guard members have immediate access to supplementary payments as needed of up to 20% of the Criminal Defense Costs limit including:
Attorney consultation and retainer fees
Member loss of earning up to $250 per day
Lawful replacement of legally possessed firearm
Clean-up costs for member’s residence
Psychological support counseling"
So, according to this you get pretty much nothing unless you win the case. You have to pay up front all legal fees (except an advance for retainer as noted above). This makes the NRA policy a VERY poor option IMHO. The entire idea about CC insurance is that it can cost a small fortune to defend yourself and shouldering all that cost up front is why you want insurance in the first place. With NRA they get all the benefits of you paying them but take no risk whatsoever. No thanks.
Marty Hayes lets NRA have it in a Open Letter to Wayne La Pierre, NRA Executive V.P.
Thanks for posting the link! Exactly what my thoughts were on this issue. LaPierre is a PITA and needs to go. Isn't he retiring? Which of the other life-tenure bureaucrats is taking his place?