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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...o-cut-social-security-mortgage-deduction.html

A presidential commission’s leaders proposed a $3.8 trillion deficit-cutting plan that would cut Social Security and Medicare, reduce income-tax rates and eliminate tax breaks including the mortgage-interest deduction.
I say bring it on!!! It's time to cut these programs, while you're at it cut WELFARE!!! Cut WIC, cut all pointless free handout government supported crap that people have taken advantage of for the past 50+ years.

It's time that every american is told: GET OFF YOUR BUTT! NOTHING IS BEING GIVEN TO YOU ANYMORE!!!

Retirement doesn't exist anymore people. Social security is the retirement for people who worked base jobs for as long as they could, got hurt or something and now live on it for the rest of their lives. Fact is, this world is survival of the fittest. If you can't survive then its obvious whats going to happen. I have a 401k plan, I managed my money with the help of some of the smartest investors that were my personal friends. I didn't ride peoples coat tails, I planned for my future each and every day and now I'm 27, with my life ahead of me unless some of those idiots in the WH screw it up. Lower my taxes to 14% and you can keep your freaking home interest deductions, better yet lets talk FLAT TAX!!! But you keep more money in my pockets, by spending less for programs that the only people that benefit are the mostly the same freeloaders who stayed on it for their entire lives, then so be it. Keep all that money I paid towards SS as a good faith donation. I don't want the program, like an honest hard working american, I support my family, I plan for my future, I work hard at my job and I personally strive to be a productive member in my community. Lets cut the crap and get the ball rolling. hehe rant off ;)
 

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I'd like to see the earned income credit on the top of that list
 

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If the gubmint had left Social Security alone and not taken the excess for the General Fund over the years it would still be a viable source of self-perpetuating funding.

If the gubmint would leave Social Security as it was intended, as a supplement to one's work-retirement, it would be self-perpetuating. It was NOT intended to be spent to send a retiree's children to college, it was not intended to fund an ex-wife and her new husband.

If the gubmint (and guess which party raided it first) would have left the interest to build and not fund other programs, it would still be viable and self-perpetuating. They said they were "borrowing" the funds they took, but none have ever been returned.

It is not something we should give up on so easily. You and I both have paid for it. Let the gubmint just not send aid overseas or fund a war or police-action for one twelve-month period or pay for the impotent UN actions world-wide and we would have a viable and paid-for Social Security program once again. Just one year........
 

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luangtom said:
You and I both have paid for it.
Which is why I support Paul Ryan's plan to phase it out very gradually. The longer you have paid in, the more you will get out.

I'm willing to pay into it and forgo any withdrawl. Why? I don't want my kids to be in the position I am. If someone is going to get screwed by the giant Ponzi scheme, let it be me. But let my children live without payroll taxes.
 

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Obama is not going to be happy. :lol:

They were supposed to recommend higher taxes, more regulations on businesses, and "health care reform".
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I second the above. Chalk me up for my share and let it be known that I'd rather forfeit the monies that I've put into it, so my kids and their kids don't have to go through the same mess I'm currently going through. It's time this country starts standing on its own two feet for once and quit relying on GOV handouts every month. Our entire system needs to be overhauled. The rules and regulations need to be changed to establish criteria VERY STRICT CRITERIA to even be able to benefit from these programs. It's VERY VERY VERY obvious that our current programs have loop holes and weak points. It's time to stop the systems, rephrase the legal wording, put in the new measures and try to re-establish the program IF AND I MEAN IF the citizens of this country determines its something we need. But I'm ill that we continue to let all these bottom of the bucket scum dogs with 15 kids suck our system dry. They keep having kids with different men to keep getting more money. They're trash, they're worthless and they're a part of the reason this country is falling apart.
 

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shaftoe said:
luangtom said:
You and I both have paid for it.
Which is why I support Paul Ryan's plan to phase it out very gradually. The longer you have paid in, the more you will get out.

I'm willing to pay into it and forgo any withdrawl. Why? I don't want my kids to be in the position I am. If someone is going to get screwed by the giant Ponzi scheme, let it be me. But let my children live without payroll taxes.
I completely agree with this. You cannot simply shut the valve off, but it would have to be gradually phased out as mentioned above. Its a great idea. The more you put in, the more you get out.

Those older folks that paid in their whole lives, they get what they put in (inflation adjusted of course) and young guys like me, we get less, but equally worth what we put in. It doesn't have to be perfect, but at least close to what you put in. I also, echo the sentiment about my children. I'd rather me get screwed by the Ponzi scheme than my children.
 

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TippinTaco said:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...o-cut-social-security-mortgage-deduction.html

A presidential commission’s leaders proposed a $3.8 trillion deficit-cutting plan that would cut Social Security and Medicare, reduce income-tax rates and eliminate tax breaks including the mortgage-interest deduction.
I say bring it on!!! It's time to cut these programs, while you're at it cut WELFARE!!! Cut WIC, cut all pointless free handout government supported crap that people have taken advantage of for the past 50+ years.

It's time that every american is told: GET OFF YOUR BUTT! NOTHING IS BEING GIVEN TO YOU ANYMORE!!!

Retirement doesn't exist anymore people. Social security is the retirement for people who worked base jobs for as long as they could, got hurt or something and now live on it for the rest of their lives. Fact is, this world is survival of the fittest. If you can't survive then its obvious whats going to happen. I have a 401k plan, I managed my money with the help of some of the smartest investors that were my personal friends. I didn't ride peoples coat tails, I planned for my future each and every day and now I'm 27, with my life ahead of me unless some of those idiots in the WH screw it up. Lower my taxes to 14% and you can keep your freaking home interest deductions, better yet lets talk FLAT TAX!!! But you keep more money in my pockets, by spending less for programs that the only people that benefit are the mostly the same freeloaders who stayed on it for their entire lives, then so be it. Keep all that money I paid towards SS as a good faith donation. I don't want the program, like an honest hard working american, I support my family, I plan for my future, I work hard at my job and I personally strive to be a productive member in my community. Lets cut the crap and get the ball rolling. hehe rant off ;)
I say cut the programs also, after they refund the $250,000 that they took from me over the 40 years that I worked. I certaintly won't live long enough to collect it at the paltry rate that they administer it. I'm not the one that decided to give it to every worthless freeloader that never paid a dime into it. I wasn't the one that decided to take the funds for social services to the useless, Johnson did. I worked sick and even hurt at times. Since I could not use these funds for any investment in a retirement fund, I just invested considering that a little of the money that they took from me would come back. And now you want to help them take it all away!!! When they do, there's going to be a lot of old folks with not a lot to lose that are going to be really pissed!!!
 

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TippinTaco said:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...o-cut-social-security-mortgage-deduction.html

A presidential commission’s leaders proposed a $3.8 trillion deficit-cutting plan that would cut Social Security and Medicare, reduce income-tax rates and eliminate tax breaks including the mortgage-interest deduction.
I say bring it on!!! It's time to cut these programs, while you're at it cut WELFARE!!! Cut WIC, cut all pointless free handout government supported crap that people have taken advantage of for the past 50+ years.

It's time that every american is told: GET OFF YOUR BUTT! NOTHING IS BEING GIVEN TO YOU ANYMORE!!!

Retirement doesn't exist anymore people. Social security is the retirement for people who worked base jobs for as long as they could, got hurt or something and now live on it for the rest of their lives. Fact is, this world is survival of the fittest. If you can't survive then its obvious whats going to happen. I have a 401k plan, I managed my money with the help of some of the smartest investors that were my personal friends. I didn't ride peoples coat tails, I planned for my future each and every day and now I'm 27, with my life ahead of me unless some of those idiots in the WH screw it up. Lower my taxes to 14% and you can keep your freaking home interest deductions, better yet lets talk FLAT TAX!!! But you keep more money in my pockets, by spending less for programs that the only people that benefit are the mostly the same freeloaders who stayed on it for their entire lives, then so be it. Keep all that money I paid towards SS as a good faith donation. I don't want the program, like an honest hard working american, I support my family, I plan for my future, I work hard at my job and I personally strive to be a productive member in my community. Lets cut the crap and get the ball rolling. hehe rant off ;)
You forgot to add all the money being thrown down a black hole on the "war on terror?" Funny how war makes the few even more wealth while the less fortunate suffer and die... the military industial complex has to be starved to death too IMHO... not just the welfare state. Also, make the currency CONSTITIONAL again rather than printing WORTHLESS PAPER called Federal Reserve Notes.

Is your labor worth $.04/cotton sheet with some ink slapped on it saying $1/$5/$20/$100, weighting 1gram, where the cost of printing $1 FRN cost the same as printing a $100 FRN? For a farmer to get $100 worth of crops, he has produce... when the Federal Reserve wants to print another $600 BILLION-1 TRILLION in FRN paper, all they do is press a botton on a computer and like "magic" they can buy up bonds etc... the world DOES NOT work like this... just as you can't be fighting questionable wars, bailing out disgusting wallstreet pigs and rewarding greed, or expanding the welfare state and expect a prosperous nation.

The first few years of this economic crisis is only the first few chapters of what is coming down the road, it's like a person with cancer slowing dieing... this country is the MOST INDEPTED NATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, never before in history has any country owed so in massive dept... at lest 70 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities, you better take another look if you think it's just the welfare state causing all this massive dept load... IMHO, America will never be able to pay off the depts.

ALSO, I would not care if the government wanted to end SS, just as so long the bums give me my money back with interest (to compensate for inflation) so I can make up my own damn mind as what to do with my own damn money... but THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN because America has now become the hasbeen deadbeat of the world... that's why our money has been debased and our manufacturing base shipped to china, india etc... America been sold out, piece by piece, by both parties through out the generations.

And if you think your 401K is safe, you are DEAD WRONG, I been reading that Obama has his clowns have been pondering plans to NATIONALIZE 401Ks and other similar things and replace them with a government plan... might as well call it SS 2.0, another ponzi schem that attract the losers who have nothing. When you can buy votes, your contry is basically finished... when your monetary system is run by a private central bank, you have no true sovereignty to speak of other than songs about "land of the free." :lol:
 

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The major news sources had on their reports that the current average pay and benefits for a US private-sector worker is $60,000 per year. The average pay and benefits for government employees is $124,000 per year. Why? I thought these folks worked for us? A great start to the savings we need is with just putting the government workers' pay and benefits in line with that of the private-sector.

Another issue is the paid-holidays and that cost for the tax-payer. Just exactly what percentage of the work-force of the local, state and federal government are veterans to be off on Veterans Day? Think of those savings if paid only to veterans employed and not all.

Phase-out of Social Security is fine, just have some guidelines for giving to those that paid in over the years. Restrict pay-out to those that are retired and not working. Far too much double-dipping goes on amongst government employees. Far too many examples of retiring from full-time status to be rehired as part-time goes on at all levels.

Implementation of programs that do not reward for having out-of-wedlock children would save the governments at all levels billions of dollars. Limit child-credit to two or three without known parentage amongst those on the rolls. Do not reward for having multiple children. We are one of the few countries in the world that reward having bastard children.
Sorry if those words offend, but I believe it is proper word usage.

This country needs an over-haul, but sad to say, it most likely is just alot of hot-air being expended by those in power saying what they think we want to hear. Special interests and lobbyists will most likely prevail and those new legislators will cave to the pressure. Sad, but most likely the truth......
 

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atlsrt44 said:
I'd like to see the earned income credit on the top of that list
I'd say the Child and Dependent Care Credit is the most abused form of income redistribution out there (tax-based, anyway).
 

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The centerpiece of their recommendations was supposed to be some kind of Fed national sales tax. Guess they changed their mind ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Why won't any of these morons look at the FairTax Act. Has it been proven that this system wouldn not work? I'm being serious here. Has reputable smart intelligent human beings that aren't paid off ever came forward and shown that FTA would not work? We really need to STOp all these government handouts. We spend way to much money taking care of the countries worthless citizens who are the bottom of the bottom their entire lives. Am I mean? Sure the #@[email protected]#$ am. Do I care? I care about my money and my kids future and their kids. It's time people take responsibility for having kids, for being on welfare for their entire lives. When you and I want a raise we bust our butts at work. When they want a raise they go have another kid or two.

Better idea!! Instead of handing out WIC and Foodstamps, we build foodbanks in every town. We supply those banks with generic run of the meal food that can substain life and health. No COCO Krispies, Little Debbies, Steaks. This will in turn help invest into the business sector that we can offer SMALL TAX BREAKS to food companies that support these programs by donating off products to these food banks.

This will prevent us from giving MONEY to these people, we will give them food which is why they asked for foodstamps in the first place. Not Crackstamps,Weedstamps, cigstamps,beerstamps. Hand them FOOD! Instead of WIC cards or WELFARE cards you receive an ID card with your picture that gains you entry into the foodbank. To receive this card you must meet certain criteria that goes both ways. If you've never been on the system then you're eligible if you're recently unemployeed for a small time frame sorta like unemployeement, fact they could hand this card out when you file for unemployeement. Life time user? Not anymore... Unless you have a job TRYING to make a life for yourself.

I'm going to run for president... I wonder if I would win.
 

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CR2008 said:
ALSO, I would not care if the government wanted to end SS, just as so long the bums give me my money back with interest (to compensate for inflation) so I can make up my own damn mind as what to do with my own damn money... but THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN because America has now become the hasbeen deadbeat of the world... that's why our money has been debased and our manufacturing base shipped to china, india etc... America been sold out, piece by piece, by both parties through out the generations.
You can't get your money back. It's gone. Would you be willing to end social security, knowing that you will continue to pay in and still never get a dime? Because, honestly, that's what it will take. If the answer is no, are you going to tell the old retirees currently taking social security to hurry up and die? Or are you going to tell your children to pay into it as well?

Someone's gonna get screwed. That is non-negotiable.
 

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TippinTaco said:
Why won't any of these morons look at the FairTax Act. Has it been proven that this system wouldn not work? I'm being serious here. Has reputable smart intelligent human beings that aren't paid off ever came forward and shown that FTA would not work? We really need to STOp all these government handouts. We spend way to much money taking care of the countries worthless citizens who are the bottom of the bottom their entire lives. Am I mean? Sure the #@[email protected]#$ am. Do I care? I care about my money and my kids future and their kids. It's time people take responsibility for having kids, for being on welfare for their entire lives. When you and I want a raise we bust our butts at work. When they want a raise they go have another kid or two.

Better idea!! Instead of handing out WIC and Foodstamps, we build foodbanks in every town. We supply those banks with generic run of the meal food that can substain life and health. No COCO Krispies, Little Debbies, Steaks. This will in turn help invest into the business sector that we can offer SMALL TAX BREAKS to food companies that support these programs by donating off products to these food banks.

This will prevent us from giving MONEY to these people, we will give them food which is why they asked for foodstamps in the first place. Not Crackstamps,Weedstamps, cigstamps,beerstamps. Hand them FOOD! Instead of WIC cards or WELFARE cards you receive an ID card with your picture that gains you entry into the foodbank. To receive this card you must meet certain criteria that goes both ways. If you've never been on the system then you're eligible if you're recently unemployeed for a small time frame sorta like unemployeement, fact they could hand this card out when you file for unemployeement. Life time user? Not anymore... Unless you have a job TRYING to make a life for yourself.

I'm going to run for president... I wonder if I would win.
Okay, I'll vote for ya!!!
 

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I think another big issue that has to be examined is government pensions. Aside from being ridiculous in comparison to private sector retirement plans in many cases, there is also an abuse issue in how they are calculated (usually they involve looking at the last couple years of pay with some compensation for any vacation time saved up). The abuse isn't really an issue for your average postal worker, but further up the food chain it gets fairly ridiculous.
 

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Fair Tax will never fly. Congressmen get their (election) money and support from being able to selectively apply tax laws to folks with lobbyists.
 

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Regarding social security... Yes, it's a ponzi scheme. Yes, the so-called non-existant "lock box" has been raided. Yes, it is nothing more than yet another tax on income.

Having said that, it is equally true that it's a mandated, government run pension plan. There are millions of elderly who held good faith with their government and who rely on it for their livelihoods.

If you or I entered into a financial agreement and then decided willy-nilly to just re-write the contract anytime we felt like it, then people would be confiscating our assets.
 

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EJR914 said:
shaftoe said:
luangtom said:
You and I both have paid for it.
Which is why I support Paul Ryan's plan to phase it out very gradually. The longer you have paid in, the more you will get out.

I'm willing to pay into it and forgo any withdrawl. Why? I don't want my kids to be in the position I am. If someone is going to get screwed by the giant Ponzi scheme, let it be me. But let my children live without payroll taxes.
I completely agree with this. You cannot simply shut the valve off, but it would have to be gradually phased out as mentioned above. Its a great idea. The more you put in, the more you get out.

Those older folks that paid in their whole lives, they get what they put in (inflation adjusted of course) and young guys like me, we get less, but equally worth what we put in. It doesn't have to be perfect, but at least close to what you put in. I also, echo the sentiment about my children. I'd rather me get screwed by the Ponzi scheme than my children.
+ a million.

And you should be able to pass it on to your kids... If they want to mandate retirement "savings"*, you should be able to choose a range of TAX FREE savings/investing (say from 5-15%**) into a personal account wherein you can can choose the investment. And if you die that should roll over into your estate, also tax free.

*Assuming there is a benefit to not having old people around who can't take care of themselves and would become a burden to society

**This is important because paying into SS bones you when you make less money -- it is a regressive tax [edit: as MP pointed out, it is a flat tax, not a regressive tax]. You should be able to ramp up the percentage as you increase your financial ability to pay.
 
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