Trumps executive orders

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by atlsrt44, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. atlsrt44

    atlsrt44 Well-Known Member

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  2. dhaller

    dhaller Active Member

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    It's taken 3 1/2 years, but people have finally realized that they can pretty much tune Trump out. He's become pretty irrelevant.

    He abandoned leadership, and when you do that, people stop listening. Cut the states loose, basically, so they took up the reins themselves. Made uninformed pronouncements on COVID, so most school districts ignored that and are having virtual opens anyway.

    You can really see it in his "many generals say it was a bomb" claim the other day, to which actual generals said "lol, wut?", and the rest of the world just kind of didn't react to it.

    Basically, the grownups are ready to get back to work.

    (Sort of top of mind since reading WaPo's rundown this morning: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...aacfa6-d76f-11ea-9c3b-dfc394c03988_story.html)

    DH
     
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  3. Bkite

    Bkite PawPaw x 3

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    What does this have to do with the EO being discussed/presented?
    Do you often go to the Washington ComPost for your up-to-date outlook on the highly fallible yet best President this nation has had in at least 60 years?
     
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  4. dhaller

    dhaller Active Member

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    You were wondering why Trump's brain fart wasn't trending on Google. I pointed out that he's become irrelevant, and no one cares. You asked, I answered; that's the definition of "what does this have to do with".

    As far as WaPo, I'm an actual grown up who reads actual news, as opposed to fapping to OAN.

    DH
     
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  5. Bkite

    Bkite PawPaw x 3

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    No, I did not wonder "why Trump's brain fart wasn't trending on Google." Your reference to OAN is also tangential which leads me to a full understanding of why you go to the Washington ComPost for your news.
    As far as the "I'm an actual grown up who reads actual news" comment I can only say...
    Bwahahahahahahahahaha
     
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  6. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    Sort of like your Democratic communist comrades. I enjoy you being here on the forum. You are entertaining from time to time. The question begs asking why are you really here your politics certainly don't support your being here. Do you really think the other candidate currently running for President is going to support your right to bear arms. That alone makes President Trump relevant. He most certainly is not perfect by any means just like you and me but as far as the 2nd amendment goes he is at this point is all we got and that includes you if you really care about gun rights.Do you?
     
  7. dhaller

    dhaller Active Member

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    Well thank you? "Time to time" is better than never, in any case.

    Yes, I support gun rights. I would say it's an area (one of many) in which I diverge from the General Left in this country. Really, none of the "parties" fit me, so I pick and choose on the basis of either character (the main reason I don't care for Trump) or *specific* policies (which works better locally than nationally.)

    I will say, too, that my "pro-gun" position also diverges from the standard "gun rights" crowd, in that I believe gun rights should be connected to gun responsibilities.

    In particular, I favor *mandatory* firearm training for *everyone*... as in, there should be rifle ranges at schools. Guns are such a ubiquitous aspect of American life, from start to finish (is there any more iconic image than the Minuteman holding a musket?), that ignoring that fact is just stupid; it's like growing up in Iceland and never learning to wear a parka, or walk on snow. Stupid.

    And YET, for some reason the prevailing sentiment of gun rights supporters is "even the biggest, drunkest moron who's never held a gun before should be able to buy an AR-15 with no background check and carry it low-ready into McDonalds" - I never understood it! It always seems to ME that a true devotee of a thing wants other devotees to *do it right*. Dunno!

    Responsible gun ownership, and all that entails - learning to use one, keeping current with training updates (required for license renewal), taking care of the thing, storing it correctly, etc, etc... but, alas, no one but me considers this important. It's not even an available policy position, as far as I know. Just my peculiar opinion.

    To add: I think, realistically, the primary "reason" to have firearms is *recreation*... I wonder what the ratio of recreational to self-defense usage actually occurs in "real life" (that is, apart from the readers here, who apparently often "take out" bad guys... me? never needed to handle it that way!) I shoot for fun. I'm teaching my daughter, 8, to shoot for fun... who knows, maybe she'll get into sport shooting? I started building guns when I was 13 (I used to build muzzleloaders as a kid - I sold some, and made some for my uncle, who liked to hunt with muzzleloaders and bows in Upper Michigan), and I have always been struck by the pure functional beauty of firearms: the precision machining, the balance, the importance of build quality, and just the aesthetic beauty of the thing as you blue the barrel, rub the stocks down with beeswax, etc - I'd love (my) kids to be able to appreciate the same craft. Heck of a lot less harmful than video games and social media.

    As for Biden: I think he could serve a double term (if he lives long enough), and at the end we'll still have 2nd Amendment rights. Gun Control for the Left is like Abortion for the Right: a culture war issue they use to drive narratives, but never actually do anything about. Guns, like abortion, are here to stay. I don't see Trump (who has almost certainly never fired a single gun in his life) as a critical hedge against gun control.

    So, tl/dr version: I think folks should be able to responsibly own guns, and they should have the resources available - as a matter of public education - to do so.
     
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  8. 45_Fan

    45_Fan Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think the signing was significant. There may not be funding or legal avenues for the executive branch to exercise such power. Watching what Congress does will be more significant.

    It was a heck of a political maneuver though. The Republicans are going to be loathe to eat one of their own in an election year and the Democrats potentially have to sue to stop relief funds from making it to voters. If Congress remains deadlocked or self-immolates, executive power grows unchecked. If Congress gets their act together to check executive power, either they’re the bad guys (stealing relief from the citizenry) or Trump gets to claim credit for any positive actions they take (if they fund another relief package).
     
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  9. 45_Fan

    45_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Extremely true and poignant.
     
  10. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    Do you support mandatory training for the rest of the Amendments as well?
    Then you really have no understanding of the 2nd at all.
    As much as I hate to tell you this you are indeed delusional.
    Really.
    Sort of like they checked O's executive power.

    The one thing I will give you is that you have the ability to conduct a civil discourse. You are still wrong on all counts as it stands right now.
     
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  11. Bkite

    Bkite PawPaw x 3

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    Who gets to decide how to "do it right"? I would suspect you and those with a mindset like you.

    The primary reason the 2nd Amendment was penned was to lay out the need of We the People to be able to check an over reaching, over intrusive government. If that government decided for example that only people who do things the way "they " say, then We the People have a recourse to tell them, "no, we'll do it our way".
     
  12. dhaller

    dhaller Active Member

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    Just a stretch here, but voters?

    Where do you get that from? It's not in the 2nd Amendment.

    The second amendment says that because a well-regulated militia is crucial to the maintenance of a free State (itself kind of an archaic notion, "militias", but of course this is a 230 year old document), the right to bear arms won't be infringed upon. That's it. Someone tries to invade the USA (a "free State"), they get to meet armed farmers, or whatever.

    Think about gun ownership from a practical standpoint:

    Let's zoom from 1789 to 2020: what's the probability of an invading force landing at, say, Savannah, and then moving across Georgia towards Atlanta? (maybe they want to capture strategic targets, like Hartsfield or CNN): I'll go with "zero". Maybe you think the Chinese have a secret space fleet, with infantry-insertion capabilities? Maybe... but I just don't think so.

    What's the probability that someone will need to shoot a team of Antifa home invaders (probably teenage girls on Summer break)? Hmmm... let's call that "approaching zero" (fancy calculus term, there.)

    What about going to the range? Weekly sounds good. Go hunting? I don't know, it depends... 8-10 days per season for some, nearly daily for others (like my uncle).

    "Red Dawn" fantasies aside, the *practical* purpose of gun ownership *now* is recreation, regardless of what a 230 year old document says.

    DH
     
  13. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    I'm in favor of mandatory training in historical facts before posting nonsense on a public forum.
     
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  14. 45_Fan

    45_Fan Well-Known Member

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    I’ll disagree with both of you here. The primary effect of the 2nd amendment is that it prohibits the government from hanging grandma* by the neck until dead in the town square if she chooses to maintain the means and ability to return fire.

    Gathering arms specifically to oppose or overthrow the government is arguably treason regardless of the words of whoever says it is patriotism.

    Likewise, not seeing to your own reasonable defense from violence, whether through ignorance or hoping another will bear the responsibility in your stead, ultimately cedes an unconscionable amount of power for both oneself and eventual successors.

    *hanging grandma calls it out so much more specifically than “punish” and “citizenry” but that is the ultimate extent here anyway.
     
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  15. Bkite

    Bkite PawPaw x 3

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    The voters elected Donald Trump.
    Barring shennanigans like mail in voter fraud, illegal alien voting etc etc etc ad nauseum, he will be voted in again.

    As far as the 2nd amendment and it not referring to We The People being armed to protect from an over reaching government, if that is really your position, I have nothing to say to you on the matter because your understanding is so remedial that nothing I can say can overcome your total ignorance. Or possibly it is not ignorance. Possibly it is a desire to see America fail.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  16. Bkite

    Bkite PawPaw x 3

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    Then you didn't read and/or understand my words. Is hanging grandma by the neck "overreaching"?
     
  17. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    Someone needs to go read the debates on record, news articles, federalist papers and anti federalist papers dealing the the 2A as it was being considered and finally drafted. tench Coxe would be a good read to get you started... Perhaps then some here would be qualified to make reasonable statements instead of claiming the 2A is there for strictly recreational purposes.
     
  18. 45_Fan

    45_Fan Well-Known Member

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