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Super-Deadly Poison Bullets Are:

  • Too deadly for regular American civilians to be able to buy?

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So most of the regular posters here at Georgia Packing seem to think that all gun control is bad, and worthless as a crime-fighting policy, and that any "law-abiding" citizen (no background check required-- we'll just assume you are until it is proven you're not) should be able to own ANY WEAPON he or she can afford.
Anything from machineguns to bazookas, silencers, etc.

How about poison bullets?

This seems totally possible and realistic. Put fast-action poison in a hollow-point rifle or pistol bullet, seal it with a little wax or lacquer, that's it. Done.

When shot into the flesh of a living creature, the poison goes into the bloodstream and will turn the bad guy off in just a couple seconds.

Now you have to admit that such a deadly bullet has great value to somebody defending themselves.
Anybody who thinks that a gunfight might last more than 3 seconds because the first couple hits on the bad guy were not well-placed or did not incapacitate him as anticipated.... well.... if the bullets you used were poison bullets, the fight would be over 3 seconds after the first hit that drew blood.

All you people who carry an extra magazine and a back-up gun and a knife.... don't you want to do everything you can to make sure that when you shoot a bad guy, you stop him?

But wouldn't these bullets be too dangerous to let ordinary Americans have-- too likely to wind up in the wrong hands and used against innocent people, or cops?

Who would ban 'em, who would buy 'em, who would not buy them simply out of fear of how it would look in court?
 

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The problem I see is that accidents happen. When an accident happens, I would like for the victim to at least have a fighting chance to live.
 

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I plan on just using regular bullets. If lead poisoning is not enough to take down a criminal, then I doubt that a poison will work any better.


Maybe when the govt makes everyone carry single shot pistols with no extra ammo :screwy:
 

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I would not use them, but i think you should be able to put them in your weapon if you want to. I think my .45 JHP will STOP a bg just fine. and thats really why i carry, to stop a bg, not to kill.

excessive force is no good when LEO's do it. How could we not hold ourselves to the same moral standard?
 

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It could prove useful to someone who due to injury/disability/etc. who couldn't use an effective caliber to put a bit of poison in a round they could use, like a .22. Humans have been using poisons for thousands of years, and if someone is determined will be able to obtain it or make it, so regulation would not be very effective in my opinion. All that would be necessary would be a knowledge of plants/animals or chemical processes and how to go about obtaining them. However most poisons are not very fast acting and probably wouldn't be useful for a self defense situation, and the few that are most likely would be considered chemical weapons and would therefore have certain legal issues of their own. Maybe poison dart frog toxin? I know it can incapacitate/kill smaller primates within seconds, but unsure as to how effective it would be on humans
 

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say you drop this bullet or something similar, how well is that poison confined to the bullet? as long as its safe until it is fired, i have no issues with it. I think the legal ramifications would be difficult though
 

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That's an interesting question that you pose. As I recall, roughly 80% of all people shot with a pistol round live. Consequently, your hypothetical super-toxin which kills anyone struck with a bullet would increase the fatality rate to 100%, and the number of fatalities by a factor of 5.

Flip side: "it's just too deadly" is the same argument that antis use for semi-automatics, hollow points, so-called high capacity magazines, etc. Who gets to draw the line? If it's not me, someone else might draw it someplace I don't like.
 

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I think you could run into some legal issues if you used them in a self-defense situation.
 

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I don't get it. I fail to see the distinction between bullets with "special poison", and just plain regular bullets with "lead" poisoning (pun intended).

A well-placed bullet kills no matter if it is dipped in some super-secret toxin. Will a bullet dipped in say, arsenic or cyanide or rattlesnake venom, make a shooting victim any MORE DEAD than, say, a regular hollowpoint?

It seems like overkill to me (again, pun intended).
 

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I would hope, given the need, that all of my shot placements would be lethal without poison. I would not want an innocent bystander to die because they were wounded by an errant round or ricochet.
 

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I'd need more scientific data before I could vote on the issue! :shattered:

There just isn't a poison out there fast acting enough to act like a CNS hit if I only wounded an appendage. What if I wound them and they stop or flee? :shock:

What happens if somebody takes a case of those to the range? :oops:

I guess my thought is I carry to prevent first and stop second. I don't carry to kill but have a realistic understanding that it is a possible outcome of self defense. If I am taking an action of self defense that could kill or maim, I am only taking that action because another has made the decision for me and I have been stripped of other options. There are situations where grenades, RPGs, and machine guns would be reasonable self defense items. I would need scientific data on the super poison bullets before I could decide whether they would be more in the preventative/stop category than the punitive/vindictive category.
 

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I don't see how any poison could help with immediate incapacitation, though it might increase lethality over a longer period of time. I think we want immediate incapacitation, not maximum lethality.

I did some research and I not sure if a poison bullet would be useful. The Bulgarian secret police, assisted by the KGB, assassinated a dissident playwright by the name of Georgi Markov with a ricin-laden pellet fired from a modified umbrella. It did take him three days to die, however, so I'm not sure such a thing would be helpful for immediate stopping power.

Fired from a real gun, I'm not so sure that the poison would even survive the blast. The temperature of a speeding bullet (from what I found) is at least 296 degrees Fahrenheit. I would think that such temperatures might denature the proteins of a poison, rendering it useless. Any biology/chemistry people have any input on this?
 

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Well, you would only shoot yourself in the foot once!

This would completely remove the option of wounding someone. With that in mind, I think this goes beyond defending yourself by stopping the immediate danger. Where deadly force may be required for you or those you're protecting to be kept from harm, I think a premeditated decision to kill with each shot changes the intent.
 

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Melissa5 said:
The problem I see is that accidents happen. When an accident happens, I would like for the victim to at least have a fighting chance to live.
But, accidents don't happen, they are caused.

With all my luck, I would poison myself, while loading my firearm.
That would be like an atomic bullet, kills everyone it comes in contact with. I'm sure this will all happen soon enough. I can just see all the low lifes trying to figure out how to do this right now.
Fail....................
 

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The only poisons I could think of for a small enough quantity to fit into a normal bullet, have near instant incapacitation, and (may) survive the temperatures of a gun being fired would be synthetic nerve agents. That's also all theoretical as I have never had experience with any of them, so do not know exactly what the properties are. I'm sure if there was a market for legitimate research an appropriate toxin could be developed.
 

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I think the point is being missed here.

I do not carry a weapon to kill people. I carry a weapon to defend myself, my loved ones, or to prevent the harm of somebody else.

If, in the course of my defending myself or another, I am forced to shoot somebody, my goal is to stop the attack. If this results in the death of the offender, that is not up to me, it is up to fate.

If I were to have some type of "poison bullet" that would mean (in my mind) my intent was to kill the other person, regardless of where they are hit. The goal or expected outcome would be that they would die. To me this would be premeditated murder, not defense of oneself or another.

That is certainly not how I would want my case presented to a judge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
LET'S ASSUME THREE THINGS ABOUT THESE BULLETS

1-- They stop bad guys FAST. Not quite as fast as a hit that cuts their spinal cord, but it will drop them within a couple seconds of the bullet delivering its poison payload in their body.

2-- They are nearly always fatal. This is not your intent or desire, but it's an unfortunate by-product of being powerful enough to incapacitate somebody very quickly.

3-- They are safe to handle, store, and shoot. Unless you dig into the hollow cavities of your bullets with an ice pick and lick the blade afterward.... you're safe.

HERE'S THE DILEMMA: The bullets DO have great value to civilians in a self-defense situation. You can't count on ending an attack against you with just one or two shots. Some attacks involve wounded bad guys charging you and keeping on trying to kill you. These type of bullets will greatly reduce the possible problem.

But these bullets will also be deadlier to bystanders in the background, in case you miss.
THey will be deadlier to crime victims if bad guys buy these bullets, or steal them, or steal guns that the owners kept loaded with these rounds.
 

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I don't think I'd use them for every day carry, but they could be useful in a SHTF scenario. If there was some hypothetical poison that would quickly induce short term muscular paralysis thereby ending the threat without them dying I may carry that, though there would also be the potential for side effects that were undesirable as well.
 

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Would you really want to stop after the first shot to wait and see if the poison killed or would you just keep shooting until the threat was over?
 

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gunsmoker said:
LET'S ASSUME THREE THINGS ABOUT THESE BULLETS
I want bullets that teleport the BG unharmed to the next empty holding cell in the closest precinct that also report my position and status so that a LEO can visit with the report for me to sign and the EMTs know where to find me if I am at all injured. That doesn't exist.

I have a problem with the poison bullet concept because there is no poison that fast acting making them a device of vengeance and not stopping. I also have a problem with unintended consequences for range staff who clean up the backstop or any kids that want to dig a bullet out of a berm.

The best I can come up with would be a cyanide tablet in a hollow point, but that would take a lung or heart shot to be "quick" anyway. I just don't think it would be fast acting enough on an appendage to make a difference in stopping power.
 
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