Thoughts on Islam by a "former" terrorist

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by luke0927, Apr 5, 2007.

  1. luke0927

    luke0927 New Member

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    a little info on the author

    http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/30819

    The Article


    The Trouble With Islam
    Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.

    BY TAWFIK HAMID
    Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

    Not many years ago the brilliant Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, published a short history of the Islamic world's decline, entitled "What Went Wrong?" Astonishingly, there was, among many Western "progressives," a vocal dislike for the title. It is a false premise, these critics protested. They ignored Mr. Lewis's implicit statement that things have been, or could be, right.

    But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies. Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam. Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq. Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom. One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.

    These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation of a disease and not the disease itself. But the root-causes are quite different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya, a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology can transform a young, benevolent mind into that of a terrorist. Without confronting the ideological roots of radical Islam it will be impossible to combat it. While there are many ideological "rootlets" of Islamism, the main tap root has a name--Salafism, or Salafi Islam, a violent, ultra-conservative version of the religion.

    It is vital to grasp that traditional and even mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence. Shariah, for example, allows apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them, seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the Jews before the "end of days." The near deafening silence of the Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough that there is something fundamentally wrong.

    The grave predicament we face in the Islamic world is the virtual lack of approved, theologically rigorous interpretations of Islam that clearly challenge the abusive aspects of Shariah. Unlike Salafism, more liberal branches of Islam, such as Sufism, typically do not provide the essential theological base to nullify the cruel proclamations of their Salafist counterparts. And so, for more than 20 years I have been developing and working to establish a theologically-rigorous Islam that teaches peace.

    Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist barbarity? Indeed, if the problem is not one of religious beliefs, it leaves one to wonder why Christians who live among Muslims under identical circumstances refrain from contributing to wide-scale, systematic campaigns of terror.





    Politicians and scholars in the West have taken up the chant that Islamic extremism is caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. This analysis cannot convince any rational person that the Islamist murder of over 150,000 innocent people in Algeria--which happened in the last few decades--or their slaying of hundreds of Buddhists in Thailand, or the brutal violence between Sunni and Shia in Iraq could have anything to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.
    Western feminists duly fight in their home countries for equal pay and opportunity, but seemingly ignore, under a façade of cultural relativism, that large numbers of women in the Islamic world live under threat of beating, execution and genital mutilation, or cannot vote, drive cars and dress as they please.

    The tendency of many Westerners to restrict themselves to self-criticism further obstructs reformation in Islam. Americans demonstrate against the war in Iraq, yet decline to demonstrate against the terrorists who kidnap innocent people and behead them. Similarly, after the Madrid train bombings, millions of Spanish citizens demonstrated against their separatist organization, ETA. But once the demonstrators realized that Muslims were behind the terror attacks they suspended the demonstrations. This example sent a message to radical Islamists to continue their violent methods.

    Western appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the problem. During the four-month period after the publication of the Muhammad cartoons in a Danish magazine, there were comparatively few violent demonstrations by Muslims. Within a few days of the Danish magazine's formal apology, riots erupted throughout the world. The apology had been perceived by Islamists as weakness and concession.

    Worst of all, perhaps, is the anti-Americanism among many Westerners. It is a resentment so strong, so deep-seated, so rooted in personal identity, that it has led many, consciously or unconsciously, to morally support America's enemies.

    Progressives need to realize that radical Islam is based on an antiliberal system. They need to awaken to the inhumane policies and practices of Islamists around the world. They need to realize that Islamism spells the death of liberal values. And they must not take for granted the respect for human rights and dignity that we experience in America, and indeed, the West, today.

    Well-meaning interfaith dialogues with Muslims have largely been fruitless. Participants must demand--but so far haven't--that Muslim organizations and scholars specifically and unambiguously denounce violent Salafi components in their mosques and in the media. Muslims who do not vocally oppose brutal Shariah decrees should not be considered "moderates."

    (My words below)

    And the Liberals and the human rights activist make America out to be the worst country in the world and all their usual crap....i just don't see how they don't realize they will be he first to be killed or converted if this country doesn't stand up to islamofascism radicals.....
     
  2. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Islam is just going through the same period of violence and stupidity that Christianity went through.
     

  3. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I too disagree.

    Exhibit A:
    The middle ages.

    Have you read the Qu'ran?
     
  4. luke0927

    luke0927 New Member

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    So Isalm is only about 500 years late....? Now i don't claim to be an expert on the cursades and middle ages as it just wasnt what i was focused on in school but, i would find it hard pressed that the christians killed children the way the radical muslims are doing in the 20 and 21 Century...now i may be wrong but i would really like to see some evidence to back up that....I understand that we are dealing with extremist....i was just posting a good article from someone of the faith commenting their thoughts....good for thinking
     
  5. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Killing in the name of religion. It doesn't matter if it was a man, woman, or child. It is still wrong.

    But is killing other non-believers some how more morally superior?
     
  6. luke0927

    luke0927 New Member

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    Good Points GA i wouls say i agree with all your statments.
     
  7. pro2am

    pro2am New Member

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    That was a good article. I think the last three paragraphs sum it up nicely.
     
  8. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Romans 1:16

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    I can speak to the subject of Islam since I lived in that part of the world for five years of my life. You can't believe everything you see on television. Those reporters slant things in the way they want you to believe. We all know that. Same for the news paper print. So if you want to know the truth you must live among them like my family and I did. Not all muslims are the same. Yes, I have read some of the Koran in English. Some of the more radical muslims do want to have a one world religion-Islam. And they will do everything in their power to accomplish that. We did meet some muslims that could care less. You can't group them all together. Some just want is to live in peace. But I do agree that there are those who are mentally unstable to put it mildly. They just hate us! And they funny thing is they really don't know why.

    Childern are brainwashed from a very early age. America is evil. The West is our enemy. They must be destroyed. We see that on the news evey night. Finally, a muslim helped my father from being captued by a bunch of muslim thugs. He was our landlord. My dad lived up stairs and the landlord downstairs. Several thugs came to the landlords front door asking if there were any americans living upstairs. They had what looked liked AK 47's. The landlord said no. After they left he came up and told my dad what had happened. He saved my dads life that day and we will always be grateful to him.
     
  9. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I ask because my follow up question is I want you to show me with cited (reliable) sources where these passages are that advocate violence.



    Some? That must be some kind of oversight on your part. You trivialize it like it was only a small minority of nut jobs involved in the crusades.
    Of course you do. And I'd bet $20 that I know the reason.
     
  10. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

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    Anyone wanna take a bet on the cause of most wars on our little planet?

    Was it;




    Religion?

    Politics?

    Land acquisition?

    Greed?

    Just for the hell of it?

    Power? As in the desire to conquer.

    Other?


    Of course, then we have to decide what were wars vs. what were large battles vs. what's a mini-war vs. who knows?

    So, how do we count the most wars? Total number of them? Most casualties? Largest area conquered? Longest? Most expensive? What?

    Much as I would like to believe it, I don't think religious differences is the number one cause of human conflict. I think a combination of greed and the lust for power is number one. But, I think religion is probably a solid number two.



    Rereading before hitting the "submit" button, I noticed something...

    Some people may read something into that last sentence I really didn't intend. But I hafta sorta agree. "Solid number two". That might be painful...

    Hey! I was kicked out of the seminary, give me a break here!
     
  11. asbrand

    asbrand Active Member

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    I am agnostic, and have very little care or opinion on one religion or another.

    However, I am a scholar of history, particularly medieval history. You may be shocked to learn something new about your Christian Heritage...

    ...more history of the numbers killed on the order of the Christian Church can be found here:

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

    Feel free to disbelieve if you choose...but the truth is out there.

    This does not mean I condone what the bastard muslim's are doing now. Not at all. For all I care...we can take off, and nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure... 8)
     
  12. luke0927

    luke0927 New Member

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    I have no doubt that "Christians" have killed men, women, and children due to religious reasons......do i really care about what was done in 14th 15th 16th century....besides learning purposes..NO....only thing that matters now (to me) is what is going on in my life time.....Not all Islam followers are bad; however to me its seems rare that i do hear the ones that claim to follow "peaceful Islam" standing out and taking action against the Islamofascitst.....I am speaking more towards people in Europe and the middle east, i know there are few groups in America.....If they are out there i am not familiar......(im open to learn if some wants to show me)

    Just my thoughts if the followers of Islam want the world to to respect Isalm, I will have much more respect for it when i see freedom of religion in those countries and they can live among and allow Christians, Jews, Buddaist etc to live amonst them....We allow Freedom of religion in America where you can worship as you please.....the is the GREATEST COUNTY GOD GAVE THE WORLD AND IT NEEDS SOME RESPECT.
     
  13. luke0927

    luke0927 New Member

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    I have no doubt that "Christians" have killed men, women, and children due to religious reasons......do i really care about what was done in 14th 15th 16th century....besides learning purposes..NO....only thing that matters now (to me) is what is going on in my life time.....Not all Islam followers are bad; however to me its seems rare that i do hear the ones that claim to follow "peaceful Islam" standing out and taking action against the Islamofascist.....I am speaking more towards people in Europe and the middle east, i know there are few groups in America.....If they are out there i am not familiar......(im open to learn if some wants to show me)

    Just my thoughts if the followers of Islam want the world to to respect Islam, I will have much more respect for it when i see freedom of religion in those countries and they can live among and allow Christians, Jews, Buddhist etc to live amongst them....We allow Freedom of religion in America where you can worship as you please.....the is the GREATEST COUNTY GOD GAVE THE WORLD AND IT NEEDS SOME RESPECT.