this mite be a silly ?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by thelongshot, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. thelongshot

    thelongshot New Member

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    this mite be a silly ?

    but what round is more deadly .223 or.7.62x39
    i know the .223 wont go threw CCB but the 7.62 will



    what round is ? the better choice
    if you had 2 use one for home defence...


    or target?
     
  2. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    For home defense I would pick the .223. Less likely to punch through things. Like walls.

    7.62 has it's place. Maybe if the zombies were kicking down my door and I needed to shoot through it.

    As far as 'more deadly'... I dunno. I wouldn't want to get shot by either.
     

  3. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I asked my cousin that same question.

    He was a medic platoon leader in Iraq and A-stan. He told me he would much rather get shot with the 7.62x39 than a 5.56. He said from what he saw the 5.56 created a much more devastating wound than the AK round.
     
  4. thelongshot

    thelongshot New Member

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    wow


    but is the 5.56 round the same as the .223?
    you know if you look and both shells

    empty just the case you would see the 7.62 is a 308 and we use
    in iraq .22lr


    so your saying a 22 is better then a 308?
     
  5. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    There's a LOT more to it than comparing bullet diameters.
     
  6. kestak

    kestak New Member

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    Greetings,

    Ah! That one I know the answer! And I am sure of it!

    The .223round does a lot more damage than the 7.62x39 on flesh because it tumbles and fragment. You can get it in the torso and you can have an exit wound in the leg. The 7.62 most of the time goes through.

    There are many documented events of a 7.62 round entering the body of a soldier ("or victim") and hitting another soldier after the exit. One interesting fact is that the 7.62 round most of the time will not follow a straight trajectory in the body and may exit, for example at 45 degres of the entry point. The .223 trajectory always curve after a few inches.

    Penetration wise, the 7.62 goes deeper. So, in theory, if a shot goes through a car or metal door, the 7.62 round may do more damages to you. The box o' truth website has great tests easy to understand (no ballistic physic) of different rounds and there is a lot of documentation around on the web about those rounds.

    hehehehe... I feel smart for once (I am the one who asked the question 9mm .45).

    Thank you
     
  7. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday New Member

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    It will penetrate many walls. Check the box o' truth.

    Handgun and rifle rounds tend to overpentrate, especially if you miss your intended target. If you have loved ones on the otherside of a couple of sheetrock walls, they are in harms way. I'll stick with standard 00 buck for inside the home. It still can penetrate but I think it will penetrate less than handgun and rifle rounds.

    I'm a fan of the 7.62 X 39 because that is what I have.
     
  8. rajl

    rajl New Member

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    Basically, the 5.56 vs 7.62 argument is the same as the 9mm vs. .45 ACP argument. Do you like small, fast, high-energy bullets or do you like big, slow, high-momentum bullets?

    Are we talking about 5.56 NATO? Or commercial .223 hunting ammo? Are we talking about FMJ 7.62 Soviet (7.62x39) or "hollow-point" or soft-tip 7.62 Soviet?

    The differences:

    5.56 NATO is FMJ because of the Hague Conventions. The bullet has a tendency to fragment on penetration because of it's high speed and light weight. The wound cavity is messy, but small. There have been a number of field reports about this round lacking "stopping power". That's why the military has been investigating upgrading to 6.8 SPC of 6.5 Grendel.

    .223 is the commercial loading of 5.56. It has higher pressures and higher velocities than 5.56 NATO, and is available in heavier hunting loads that are hollow-point or soft tip. These would probably be more lethal than 5.56 NATO

    7.62 Soviet FMJ: What our soldiers encounter in the field normally. It creates a bigger hole, and has more momentum. Field reports indicate that it has more "stopping power" than 5.56 NATO. This is pretty much only because when two armies fight using FMJ ammo, the bigger hole wins.

    7.62 Soviet HP: These aren't really traditional hollow-points. Rather, they're basically FMJ with a bubble of a lighter density in the tip. It's meant to make the bullet unstable when entering a body, and more likely to spin and yaw.

    7.62 Soviet Soft-point: Poor-mans deer rifle ammo. You can buy this stuff from Wolf. It's meant for people who go deer hunting with their SKS because both the rifle and the ammo is cheaper than a 30-30, and they're ballistically similar up to 100 yards or so. It's going to have the most expansion of any of the 7.62x39mm ammo choices, but you'd never run across it in combat.
     
  9. Mafuta54

    Mafuta54 Active Member

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  10. kestak

    kestak New Member

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    Greetings,

    rajl makes me feel like a dumb head now, he coverred a lot more than I did. I justy coverred the Military FMJ. But he is right because it repeats what I read in the reports.

    Thank you
     
  11. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

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    I remember from my training that it wasn't uncommon for a 5.56 round to go into the body and exit from an unusual location. Drill Instructor told me of a buddy who caught a 5.56 in training, entered through his lower abdomen and exited up out of his collar.
     
  12. glockgirl

    glockgirl New Member

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    someone is going to have the explain the physics to me on that one...
     
  13. Foul

    Foul New Member

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  14. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

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    simply, a unstable round enters the body cavity and tumbles, then stikes a bone or other hard surface, yes it will deform, but because of lightweight and high speed, will actually bounce inside the body cavity, actually more like skip.


    here is an example of some gunshot wounds

    here

    here

    granted that last one is an opinion, but I tend to agree.

    I was pulling buts on a rifle range and a round ricocheted off the steel frame and bounced off my vest, I have it at the house, I was standing under the berm when it happened. My Ssgt looked at me and said "You need to get the Hell away from me, don't know how that one got you, but damn your unlucky."
     
  15. maddog

    maddog New Member

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    Just an old school thought for military purposes it was better to wound the enemy vice killing him since it would also take others out of battle to remove the wounded.
     
  16. kestak

    kestak New Member

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    Greetings,

    I read a very good article a little while ago on the physics of it, but I can't find it back.

    The light weight part is a misconception of basic physic. People should mention the "light energy":
    Energy = Mass X speed

    The tumbling can be caused by 3 factors:
    -The .223 has less energy when it enters the body, so the trajectory will change more easily when it will enter a different tissue mass (i.e: fat tissue is less dense than muscle, muscle is denser than a liver...). the 7.62 will do the same, but because it has more energy, the curving will occurs later (when the bullet will have lost some more energy)
    - Every bullet calliber trajectory get affected on bones in a way or another. The .223 shatters more easilly than the 7.62.
    - The .223 will diform more easilly than the 7.62. Why? I do not know, but the difformation will bring a more erratic trajectory.

    Thank you
     
  17. NetAdminWithGun

    NetAdminWithGun New Member

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    7.62x39mm For life.

    Cheaper, stronger, and penetration.

    There was a video ( i wish i could find it) where they built a fake house and started shooting through it.

    .223 only went through 1 brick wall 1/2 the time. Then got stuck 2-3 walls in.

    7.62x39mm went through 1 brick wall, 3-4 walls, and 1/2 the time out the 2nd brick wall.

    .308 went through everything.


    Talk about cover only being concealment.
     
  18. viper32cm

    viper32cm New Member

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    .223 becomes a much nicer looking round once you start using JHP.

    I've heard good things about the blitz round.

    Also, from what I hear the heavier loadings in .223 (> 69 grains) if loaded right are pretty darn good too.
     
  19. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Professional Troll

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    I have heard this from several people in the military as well. From what I have been told that using a heavy grain (60+) in .223 Rem (5.56mm) in a rifle with a twist slower than 1 in 10 will cause the round not to fly all that stable and that when it hits something, flesh in particular, the round will start to tumble end over end in effect becoming like a flying buzz saw.