The Birth of SBFs

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Mrs_Esterhouse, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    I wonder if the Vegas massacre had anything to do with Franklin's patent filing. A preemptive operation? Hmm....

    :foilhat:
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    Motopackin likes this.

  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    While I love the idea of their binary trigger, I think I will pass on the Reformation and pay the $200 tax for any short barreled rifle.
     
  4. phantoms

    phantoms Senior Mumbler

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    I'll stick with my X95.
     
  5. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    Piece of crap. That's just stupid.

    So much for the conspiracy theory.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  6. 45_Fan

    45_Fan Well-Known Member

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    If you can make 30-cal bullets that will self-stabilize you have a narrow window to corner a market.
     
  7. AtlPhilip

    AtlPhilip Proud GCO member.

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    I'm not sure why the hate. This isn't a distance shooter. And for CQB purposes a 4" group at 100yds is still in the center of B27 target.

    It's not an infantry rifle for sure, but that's not its purpose. Seems like it would be effective in just about any urban/indoor combat setting.

    At the right price point I'd buy one.
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    It looks like with a special dart like looking bullet Franklin Arms is manufacturing, they are claiming 1 MOA. I have my doubts about that claim. It also appears to be FMJ, and I would never use FMJ in a gunfight unless I had no other ammunition available, especially not in a tiny bullet diameter like 5.56. Here is the link to the discussion about the bullet.

    https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/201...eformation-straight-rifling-shoots-footballs/

    I speculate about three grand. We'll see.

    There is no way the price point will be below the price of a $200 tax stamp for a proper SBR.

    I just can't see this selling very well unless lots of people are into novelty items.
     
  9. AtlPhilip

    AtlPhilip Proud GCO member.

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    As I read it their little flechette is an attempt to increase accuracy and 4 MOA was for factory loads.

    As for three grand, not happening. But maybe this will open the doors for other manufacturers to incorporate the technology in off-the-shelf rifles. I would definitely buy the $700 off the shelf 9 inch barrel that can shoot .300 in a 4-inch group in a hundred yards. It would make a great Home Defense rifle.
     
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  10. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    I'll give Franklin Armory kudos for challenging the ATF's NFA terminologies just as Mossberg and Remington did with their not-a-shotgun shotguns. Maybe someone that matters will notice the irrelevance of many of the ATF's definitions and clean up a lot of the NFA silliness.

    Some quick observations.
    Proprietary ammo - No way would I attach any suppressor to that thing. With talk of possible instability, the potential for damaging an expensive piece of kit is quite real. And proprietary ammo tends to be both expensive and in limited supply.

    Ammo stabilization - Keyholing has been mentioned. Tumbling inside the target is good. Tumbling on the way to the target leaves a lot to be desired. Will their proprietary ammo fix this or is this going to be a "feature?"

    Cost - I've heard ~$2,000 street price. That may seem a bit high but both my Colt MK18 SBRs have about that much in them the way I've set them up (less optics). But they don't come with the limitations of Franklin's gun.

    Applicablity - This is supposed to be a "short range" weapon. Out to 50 yards, home defense, etc. The perfect environment for a shotgun at far less cost with known ammo performance.

    It will be interesting to see what the actual market for this ends up looking like or whether it's going to end up like a fart in a hurricane.
     
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  11. GAfirearmsReference

    GAfirearmsReference Weapons Law Booklet

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    This AR-pattern firearm will hold 5X as many rounds as a typical riot shotgun, have no recoil, and with its binary trigger putting two .223 bullets into the target at nearly the same time, I think it has better incapacitation potential per trigger cycle than a scattergun.
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmmm . . . two little less than a quarter inch diameter darts through the chest, IF you can hit on the trigger release, versus one ounce of lead from a slug through the chest or nine one-third of an inch pellets in the chest? Or shotgun sabot rounds with expanding projectiles?

    I conclude the shotgun wins for in-home defense "incapacitation potential" over tiny darts with no expansion.
     
  13. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you your 30 round magazine of .223 caliber bullets and raise you 72 .33 caliber pellets from my Beretta 1301 which empties very fast. :shoot:

    BTW, Franklin is going to sell these in 300 Blackout first, not .223, which may or may not turn off some people. I know nothing about 300 Blackout.
     
  14. AtlPhilip

    AtlPhilip Proud GCO member.

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  15. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Enlightenment? That article shows 5.56 not penetrating a wall; Well, gee, I guess if you shoot only side-to-side on a 16 inch on center spread, so you hit each 2 x 4 directly, that picture has some relevance . . .

    .300 Blackout was mainly made for suppressors - silence. I have shot one, and it is quiet.

    Ever shoot a 5.56 with a silencer? You better have your ear muffs on. It hurts.
     
  17. Scout706

    Scout706 Well-Known Member

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    Please, what is SBF?
     
  18. phantoms

    phantoms Senior Mumbler

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    I guessing Short Barrel Firearm, compared to the stamp required Short Barrel Rifle.
     
  19. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Yes. With Engle Ballistic subsonic ammo and an AWC Raider suppressor. Unbelievably quite. Regular 5.56mm ammo with a suppressor? It was a bit louder.