Terrorist in Airport Attacks Female to Get a Gun

Discussion in 'Firearm Related' started by Malum Prohibitum, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    She had a full auto Famas, and he wanted to get it. Of course, he picks a female. It takes a full three minutes before her colleagues can shoot this guy dead. Three minutes! Meanwhile, passengers are walking by and make no move to intervene or help the female.

    :???:

    I have seen reports saying he was armed and reports saying he was not. I do not know which ones to believe, and it cannot be discerned in the video. The most recent report says he had a "9mm revolver with bird shot" which he pointed at customers in a bar and shot at French traffic cops at a traffic stop, all in the same day. Another report said a 9mm pellet pistol. He had a Koran on him when he was killed. Blood testing shows both drugs (unspecified) and alcohol in his system.

    The military colonel says the female soldier was "psychologically shocked" but otherwise unhurt.

    This entire situation just makes me :shakehead:
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Another report says the soldiers involved were part of the Sentinelle special forces, “an elite military group installed around France to protect sensitive sites” from terrorists, which leads me to ask why they thought putting a female into these special forces was a good idea. It does not take a very creative imagination to imagine that sort of security work might involve actual physical confrontation involving bodily strength and mass as determinants.

    Prioritizing diversity strikes again.
     

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Another report says the soldiers involved were part of the Sentinelle special forces, “an elite military group installed around France to protect sensitive sites†from terrorists, which leads me to ask why they thought putting a female into these special forces was a good idea. It does not take a very creative imagination to imagine that sort of security work might involve actual physical confrontation involving bodily strength and mass as determinants.

    Prioritizing diversity strikes again.
     
  4. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Very, very few reports are mentioning the lengthy three minute delay - they all make it sound like he attempted a grab and two other soldiers (male) shot him dead.
     
  5. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    Another day, another instance of PC putting everyone at risk.
     
  6. Mafuta54

    Mafuta54 Active Member

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  7. GoDores

    GoDores Like a Boss

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    Any link to anything?
     
  8. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    In deference to the female soldier involved, she was jumped from behind while on solitary patrol. Here's a very quick video showing the initial attack.

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EjwTW-QzOo[/ame]
     
  9. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Remember, too, how the 2005 courthouse shooter Brian Nichols overpowered and disarmed a female Fulton County Deputy and got her gun, and used it to kill a judge, a court reporter, another Deputy (not the one he got his gun from), and later a federal LEO.
    Would it be racist or sexist to suggest that physically smaller-statured individuals (male or female, of any race or creed) get extra training in weapons retention?
    Certainly it's got to be easier for a man to disarm a 5' 3" person weighing 130 pounds (typical for a female, but not uncommon for some men of certain ethnic groups) than a person who is 5' 11" and 180 lbs. (typical for a man, but some northern and eastern European women are commonly that size).
     
  10. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    As mentioned in the above video, she was jumped from behind while on solitary patrol. Her teammates took about a minute to respond. Here's a longer video.

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8EgO06GBjE[/ame]

    Here's an article on the shooting.

    http://www.pressherald.com/2017/03/18/gunman-shot-dead-at-paris-airport/
     
  11. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    How about real world physical requirements. I've met women that can meet real physical requirements, but they are (when we are being objective and honest) far fewer than the men that meet those requirements. Additional training is NOT always the answer and in some areas is plain a sop for those who don't want to face the reality that the average man can overwhelm even a moderately better trained average female.
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    This is a set of special forces soldiers whose job it is to carry around an assault rifle in the airport all shift while in close contact with large numbers of unknown people and swiftly kill terrorists whenever the opportunity presents itself. I just do not see how "real world physical requirements" are going to permit females to participate. A female is always going to be the weak link in this scenario, and this could have ended much, much worse if the attacker had been somebody other than a drunk, high, out of shape middle aged man who had been out all night with no rest. A young, in shape, strong, trained, and determined individual who knows something (anything!) about the retention sling the French military uses could have accomplished a very different outcome in this scenario.

    Putting a female into that job, no matter how many push-ups or pull-ups she can do, makes us all less safe. Feelings on "diversity" and "equality" do not change reality.
     
  13. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    I read the "physical requirements" phrase as being a set of gender-agnostic specifications for someone to do the job well. If a person meets all relevant requirements reasonably related to the job, bench press 200#, weigh 160#, do 300 sit ups, run a mile in 8, proficiency in hand-to-hand, etc, why should being female be a disqualifier?
     
  14. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

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    Elite special forces units are supposed to be the best of the best. This French female soldier is a joke to that. The arguments that women can be in the best of the best elite military units, are not serious arguments. Sorry, but this is ridiculous. If I'm forming a special elite unit, I want big, brawny, strong soldiers. I'm looking for NFL players. There aren't any women in the NFL, for a reason. Get some women playing competitively in the NFL, and I'll begin considering women for Ranger and Special Forces units. We, the U.S. and other western nations so foolish as this, are going to get a bunch of people killed in future conflicts. I can't even believe I have to convince anyone of this stuff.
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Rugerer, I understand what he meant, and I agree with you that this is what he meant. I still say it does not matter. When a strong, young, male terrorist bad ass with his act together decides to do the exact same thing this muslim attempted, her 8 minute mile (pathetic, by the way) is not going to matter a whit.
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Misogyny?


    Sex discrimination?


    Trump?


    Am I close?


    Oh, wait, I've got it: Patriarchy!
     
  17. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    A little less disdain, please. The special forces people I've noticed in the public eye don't look like big, burly, brawny 350 lbs NFL players either.

    I believe it is a legitimate question that no one has directly answered.

    Do you believe the least capable, weakest, whatever, man on any special forces team is still more capable, stronger, whatever than any other woman anywhere in the world?

    If no, why can't that woman have his job?

    If yes, then it's a testament to the very high vetting process that every special forces team everywhere follows.

    Sure, on the scale of physical capability, the best man is better than the best woman, but many women are stronger than many men. What percentile of men does the best woman fall at?

    It's not exactly crystal clear to us with no military experience that the minimum standard a special forces team will accept is higher than the best possible woman can perform. My question was only to the point that if there is a minimum standard set such that a person who meets the standard can be expected to perform the job, and there is a women who happens to meet the standard, then she should be considered for the job.

    If the best woman falls at the 85th percentile of men, and special forces have the standard set at the 2nd percentile of men, then there's no argument. If we're going to generalize and say "no woman can do this job" it's only fair to delve into the basis of that generalization and see if it's well founded. To stop at, "well, woomun," is not exactly evaluating requirements. That would seem to me no different than saying "no man can be a nurse" as a process of evaluation.

    If you want to say that out of 100 applicants, there needs to be 10 selected, and it's impossible for a woman to make that top 10 in whatever testing process they go through, then great. But getting all pissy when there's a question of the basis for the conclusion isn't exactly persuasive.

    It's not at all crystal clear that a man at the post is a guarantee he can't lose an ambush; it's not at all crystal clear that a woman at the post is guarantee she will lose an ambush. This woman lost this ambush. How does her specific experience define every woman everywhere in he world?
     
  18. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  19. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    This is a very specific job.

    These French special forces must walk around crowds with a machine gun. They are vulnerable to ambush. Their job entails being surrounded by lots of people, any number of whom may be hostile.

    Their job is to take out hostiles before they can commit mass murder.

    The job necessarily entails being in close quarters with a person or persons who may physically attack.

    I do not know what the French selection process looks like. I would set it up, however, to favor larger, stronger soldiers. Small men would probably not be a good fit for this role.

    Females necessarily have less upper body strength than men. This is not an opinion. It is simple biology. Go look for photos of the women joining combat roles in the US military. There are lots of photos out there now. Several of them have a "tough" look, somewhat masculine, but inevitably if you find a photo of them in a T-shirt, they try to look tough, but they have the soft upper body of a 13 year old boy. What in the world do you think is going to happen to that "tough" female when somebody my size (but much younger and faster) trains for months on disarming opponents and putting that Famas machine gun to use quickly? I can offer some predictions if you are having trouble imagining the consequences yourself.

    I would not place any 140 pound men in such a special force, either.

    This is not some political statement. It is just recognizing reality. This is not another warrior princess movie. It is real life.
     
  20. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    An example of what I am talking about, a "tough" female attending the Marine infantry course. I admit she has a "tough" look to her, but look at the shoulders, arms, chest, traps, neck thickness, and overall body mass and just think about how she would fare in a life or death hand to hand struggle over her weapon.
    [​IMG]


    Read more at https://www.businessinsider.com.au/photo-woman-marine-infantry-course-2013-10#fZiBcevgWBsfq10T.99