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Discussion Starter #61
But it does not matter, because there is no such thing as a renewal license anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
16-11-129.
(a) Application for license or renewal license; term.

The judge of the probate court of each county may, on application under oath and on payment of a fee of $15.00, issue a license or renewal license valid for a period of five years to any person whose domicile is in that county or who is on active duty with the United States armed forces and who is not a domiciliary of this state but who either resides in that county or on a military reservation located in whole or in part in that county at the time of such application, which license or renewal license shall authorize that person to carry any pistol or revolver in any county of this state notwithstanding any change in that persońs county of residence or state of domicile. Applicants shall submit the application for a license or renewal license to the judge of the probate court on forms prescribed and furnished free of charge to persons wishing to apply for the license or renewal license. An applicant who is not a United States citizen shall provide sufficient personal identifying data, including without limitation his or her place of birth and United States issued alien or admission number, as the Georgia Bureau of Investigation may prescribe by rule or regulation. An applicant who is in nonimmigrant status shall provide proof of his or her qualifications for an exception to the federal firearm prohibition pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Section 922(y). Forms shall be designed to elicit information from the applicant pertinent to his or her eligibility under this Code section, including citizenship, but shall not require data which is nonpertinent or irrelevant such as serial numbers or other identification capable of being used as a de facto registration of firearms owned by the applicant. The Department of Public Safety shall furnish application forms and license forms required by this Code section. The forms shall be furnished to each judge of each probate court within the state at no cost.

(b) Licensing exceptions. No license or renewal license shall be granted to:

(1) . . .(6) . . .

(c) Fingerprinting.

Following completion of the application for a license or the renewal of a license, the judge of the probate court shall require the applicant to proceed to an appropriate law enforcement agency in the county with the completed application. The appropriate local law enforcement agency in each county shall then capture the fingerprints of the applicant for a license or renewal license to carry a pistol or revolver, place the fingerprint required by subsection (f) of this Code section on a blank license form which has been furnished to the law enforcement agency by the judge of the probate court, and place the name of the applicant on the blank license form. The law enforcement agency shall be entitled to a fee of $5.00 from the applicant for its services in connection with the application.

(d) Investigation of applicant; issuance of license; renewal.

(1) For both license applications and requests for license renewals, the judge of the probate court shall direct the law enforcement agency to request a fingerprint based criminal history records check from the Georgia Crime Information Center and Federal Bureau of Investigation for purposes of determining the suitability of the applicant and return an appropriate report to the judge of the probate court. Fingerprints shall be in such form and of such quality as prescribed by the Georgia Crime Information Center and under standards adopted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation may charge such fee as is necessary to cover the cost of the records search.
(2) For both license applications and requests for license renewals, the judge of the probate court shall also direct the law enforcement agency to conduct a background check using the Federal Bureau of Investigatiońs National Instant Criminal Background Check System and return an appropriate report to the probate judge.
(3) When a person who is not a United States citizen applies for a license or renewal of a license under this Code section, the judge of the probate court shall direct the law enforcement agency to conduct a search of the records maintained by the United States Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. As a condition to the issuance of a license or the renewal of a license, an applicant who is in nonimmigrant status shall provide proof of his or her qualifications for an exception to the federal firearm prohibition pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Section 922(y).
(4) The law enforcement agency shall notify the judge of the probate court within 50 days, by telephone and in writing, of any findings relating to the applicant which may bear on his or her eligibility for a license or renewal license under the terms of this Code section. When no derogatory information is found on the applicant bearing on his or her eligibility to obtain a license or renewal license, a report shall not be required. The law enforcement agency shall return the application and the blank license form with the fingerprint thereon directly to the judge of the probate court within such time period. Not later than 60 days after the date of the application the judge of the probate court shall issue the applicant a license or renewal license to carry any pistol or revolver if no facts establishing ineligibility have been reported and if the judge determines the applicant has met all the qualifications, is of good moral character, and has complied with all the requirements contained in this Code section.

. . .

(i) Temporary renewal licenses.

(1) Any person who holds a license under this Code section to carry a pistol or revolver may, at the time he applies for a renewal of the license, also apply for a temporary renewal license if less than 90 days remain before expiration of the license he then holds or if his previous license has expired within the last 30 days.
(2) Unless the judge of the probate court knows or is made aware of any fact which would make the applicant ineligible for a five-year renewal license, the judge shall at the time of application issue a temporary renewal license to the applicant.
(3) Such a temporary renewal license shall be in the form of a paper receipt indicating the date on which the court received the renewal application and shall show the name, address, sex, age, and race of the applicant and that the temporary renewal license expires 90 days from the date of issue.
(4) During its period of validity the temporary renewal permit, if carried on or about the holdeŕs person together with the holdeŕs previous license, shall be valid in the same manner and for the same purposes as a five-year license.
(5) A $1.00 fee shall be charged by the probate court for issuance of a temporary renewal license.
(6) A temporary renewal license may be revoked in the same manner as a five-year license.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Sgt.B said:
I asked for a temporary license- Clerk says, "We don't do them." I give her a copy of 16-11-129. She asks, "Where did you get this from?"
:shakehead:

Obviously, Sgt.B, the law is far too complicated for a mere mortal like you to understand it. It takes an expert, like a probate judge, to read the above quotation and understand that what it is really saying is that there is no such thing as a renewal license or temporary renewal license anymore. Mere laymen may be confused by the parts that say the judge "shall issue" a renewal license or temporary renewal license into believing that there is such a thing and that, well, the judge "shall issue" them.

The only solution is to ban possession of statute books for non-judges. Kind of like the Catholic Church and Bibles in the middle ages.

Q. "Why are you burning him at the stake?"

A. "Oh, we caught him disseminating copies of O.C.G.A. 16-11-129! Can't have that!"
 

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If only that mattered. Can you apply for a new permit BEFORE your current permit expires?
 

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RepeatDefender said:
If only that mattered. Can you apply for a new permit BEFORE your current permit expires?
Yes. You can apply for another permit whenever you want.

Personally, I'll probably be getting an FL or UT non-res when that time starts to roll around.
 

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mzmtg said:
RepeatDefender said:
If only that mattered. Can you apply for a new permit BEFORE your current permit expires?
Yes. You can apply for another permit whenever you want.
Some courts only accept renewals at 90 days before your current one expires. Some will accept it earlier than that. Contact your probate court to find out what they allow. http://www.georgiapacking.org/gfl1.php

mzmtg said:
Personally, I'll probably be getting an FL or UT non-res when that time starts to roll around.
mzmtg: Do you know that a Georgia resident can only use the GFL as a carry permit while in GA, no other permit is valid for carry inside GA for GA residents.
If your GFL expires, you cannot carry in GA (as a GA resident, it does not matter what state's non-resident permit you may have).
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Malum Prohibitum said:
16-11-129.
(a) Application for license or renewal license; term.

The judge of the probate court of each county may, on application under oath and on payment of a fee of $15.00, issue a license or renewal license valid for a period of five years to any person whose domicile is in that county or who is on active duty with the United States armed forces and who is not a domiciliary of this state but who either resides in that county or on a military reservation located in whole or in part in that county at the time of such application, which license or renewal license shall authorize that person to carry any pistol or revolver in any county of this state notwithstanding any change in that persońs county of residence or state of domicile. Applicants shall submit the application for a license or renewal license to the judge of the probate court on forms prescribed and furnished free of charge to persons wishing to apply for the license or renewal license. An applicant who is not a United States citizen shall provide sufficient personal identifying data, including without limitation his or her place of birth and United States issued alien or admission number, as the Georgia Bureau of Investigation may prescribe by rule or regulation. An applicant who is in nonimmigrant status shall provide proof of his or her qualifications for an exception to the federal firearm prohibition pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Section 922(y). Forms shall be designed to elicit information from the applicant pertinent to his or her eligibility under this Code section, including citizenship, but shall not require data which is nonpertinent or irrelevant such as serial numbers or other identification capable of being used as a de facto registration of firearms owned by the applicant. The Department of Public Safety shall furnish application forms and license forms required by this Code section. The forms shall be furnished to each judge of each probate court within the state at no cost.

(b) Licensing exceptions. No license or renewal license shall be granted to:

(1) . . .(6) . . .

(c) Fingerprinting.

Following completion of the application for a license or the renewal of a license, the judge of the probate court shall require the applicant to proceed to an appropriate law enforcement agency in the county with the completed application. The appropriate local law enforcement agency in each county shall then capture the fingerprints of the applicant for a license or renewal license to carry a pistol or revolver, place the fingerprint required by subsection (f) of this Code section on a blank license form which has been furnished to the law enforcement agency by the judge of the probate court, and place the name of the applicant on the blank license form. The law enforcement agency shall be entitled to a fee of $5.00 from the applicant for its services in connection with the application.

(d) Investigation of applicant; issuance of license; renewal.

(1) For both license applications and requests for license renewals, the judge of the probate court shall direct the law enforcement agency to request a fingerprint based criminal history records check from the Georgia Crime Information Center and Federal Bureau of Investigation for purposes of determining the suitability of the applicant and return an appropriate report to the judge of the probate court. Fingerprints shall be in such form and of such quality as prescribed by the Georgia Crime Information Center and under standards adopted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation may charge such fee as is necessary to cover the cost of the records search.
(2) For both license applications and requests for license renewals, the judge of the probate court shall also direct the law enforcement agency to conduct a background check using the Federal Bureau of Investigatiońs National Instant Criminal Background Check System and return an appropriate report to the probate judge.
(3) When a person who is not a United States citizen applies for a license or renewal of a license under this Code section, the judge of the probate court shall direct the law enforcement agency to conduct a search of the records maintained by the United States Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. As a condition to the issuance of a license or the renewal of a license, an applicant who is in nonimmigrant status shall provide proof of his or her qualifications for an exception to the federal firearm prohibition pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Section 922(y).
(4) The law enforcement agency shall notify the judge of the probate court within 50 days, by telephone and in writing, of any findings relating to the applicant which may bear on his or her eligibility for a license or renewal license under the terms of this Code section. When no derogatory information is found on the applicant bearing on his or her eligibility to obtain a license or renewal license, a report shall not be required. The law enforcement agency shall return the application and the blank license form with the fingerprint thereon directly to the judge of the probate court within such time period. Not later than 60 days after the date of the application the judge of the probate court shall issue the applicant a license or renewal license to carry any pistol or revolver if no facts establishing ineligibility have been reported and if the judge determines the applicant has met all the qualifications, is of good moral character, and has complied with all the requirements contained in this Code section.

. . .

(i) Temporary renewal licenses.

(1) Any person who holds a license under this Code section to carry a pistol or revolver may, at the time he applies for a renewal of the license, also apply for a temporary renewal license if less than 90 days remain before expiration of the license he then holds or if his previous license has expired within the last 30 days.
(2) Unless the judge of the probate court knows or is made aware of any fact which would make the applicant ineligible for a five-year renewal license, the judge shall at the time of application issue a temporary renewal license to the applicant.
(3) Such a temporary renewal license shall be in the form of a paper receipt indicating the date on which the court received the renewal application and shall show the name, address, sex, age, and race of the applicant and that the temporary renewal license expires 90 days from the date of issue.
(4) During its period of validity the temporary renewal permit, if carried on or about the holdeŕs person together with the holdeŕs previous license, shall be valid in the same manner and for the same purposes as a five-year license.
(5) A $1.00 fee shall be charged by the probate court for issuance of a temporary renewal license.
(6) A temporary renewal license may be revoked in the same manner as a five-year license.
So, am I imagining things :screwy: , or does somebody else see the word "renewal" :sly: ?

:-k
 

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So, am I imagining things , or does somebody else see the word "renewal" ?
I don't know. All I see is big gaps in the sentences were words are supposed to be. Maybe its because I am color blind? :-s

:lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #70
Well, I counted. The word renewal occurs exactly two dozen times in section 129.
 

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MP, you are probably hated by the probate court judges/clerks. (as I am sure many of us on this board are)

You can read the law, count, and think for yourself. A TRIPLE threat!! :shock:
 

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Logic ?

Found this https://dklbweb.dekalbga.org/courts/probate/pistol.htm

I think I see the logic :?: the probate courts are using.

As the issuance authority under Georgia law, the Probate Judge is required to recognize and follow the controlling federal law. The Probate Judge may not issue a license to any applicant who is prohibited from receiving such a license under federal law (primarily the "Brady Act") even if the applicant is otherwise qualified to receive the license under applicable Georgia law. At present, the Application for Firearm License approved and published by the Georgia Department of Public Safety, pursuant to the authority and direction contained in O.C.G.A. §16-11-129, may not call for disclosure by an applicant of all information which might indicate that the applicant is prohibited under federal law from receiving the license.
Of course all they would have to do to comply with the federal standard is run an instant background check before issuing the temp.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Re: Logic ?

ber950 said:
Of course all they would have to do to comply with the federal standard is run an instant background check before issuing the temp.
They DO run an instant background check- that is what happens when you get fingerprinted. The national instant background check is the only report that the local law enforcement agency delivers to the probate judge. This is the same check that a dealer runs when you purchase a firearm.

By the way, the federal law referenced relates to only one thing - purchases. That is, the federal law specifies what will and will not qualify as an exception to the background check requirement when purchasing a firearm. The law has no effect on the issuance of licenses (as we all know from the period of time when Georgia's license was not accepted as an exception to the background check requirements). There is no federal law saying probate courts may not issue licenses unless x, y, or z is checked. That part of the notice is a blatant lie (I hope I am not being too ambiguous in my conclusion). And, if I recall correctly, the federal law says only that such things will be checked periodically (GS1, every 5 years?) if the feds are to accept it as an exception to the background check when purchasing firearms. So, the issuance of a temporary license does not affect the issue of whether GFLs are accepted as exceptions to the firearms license. The check of all these things happens at the specified period whether the temporary license is issued, or not.

Is the Dekalb probate judge a lawyer?
 

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dont forget

Don't forget that the temp permit extends the term of the permit beyond five years (The limit under federal law). Therefore doing the instant check on the spot before issuing it is not unreasonable. Saying were not going to issue temporary permits is unreasonable.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Other than what I have pointed out, there is no problem with the message at the link (other than that the judge needs to learn how to use a spell checker).

It does not address the temporary license at all, but I think you are correct in pointing out that this is the reasoning :?: of the probate judges.

In sum, the federal law does not dictate anything about our firearms license. The General Assembly adopted some changes to O.C.G.A. 16-11-129 effective July 1, 2006 that made our license acceptable again as an exception to the Brady background check.

THEY LEFT 129(i) ALONE!

And the ATF recognizes it as an exception now.

The probate judges are refusing to issue the temporaries, though, even though the law says they MUST.
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
I think you are correct in pointing out that this is the reasoning :?: of the probate judges.
I figured you would want to see it.

I'm on your side. I think there being hard headed for no reason :banghead:
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Re: dont forget

ber950 said:
Don't forget that the temp permit extends the term of the permit beyond five years (The limit under federal law).
Not necessarily true. The point here, though, is that Georgia's legislative changes allowed Georgia back on the list. The legislative changes did not include doing away with temporary licenses. That is a creation of the probate courts refusing to follow state law, pure and simple.

There is no federal law that they are following. That part is a lie. I hope that statement is clear enough.

A judge's job is to follow the law, not make it up to suit what they think the law should be.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Re: dont forget

ber950 said:
. . . doing the instant check on the spot before issuing it is not unreasonable.
I agree only on the following condition - that they can still say they are issuing the temporary license "at the time of application" like O.C.G.A. 16-11-129(i) says.

Of course, once they do that, my opinion would be that they are admitting they have everything they need to issue the full 5 year renewal license that same day. It would remove their excuse for delaying issuance of the license, wouldn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter #79
ber950 said:
I'm on your side. I think they're being hard headed for no reason :banghead:
I know that! :D This is just a "hot button topic" for me. I believe firmly in the rule of law, and one thing I cannot stand is the attitude that laws apply to citizens but not the government.
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
[quote="Malum Prohibitum":1mai7ean]UPDATED LIST of counties issuing temporary renewal licenses (added to the "not issuing" column):

NOT ISSUING

Cherokee
Clayton
Cobb
Coweta
Dawson
DeKalb
Douglas
Fayette
Floyd
Fulton
Gwinnett
Henry
Meriwether
Spalding
Troup


ISSUING

Dougherty
Lee


If your county is not listed, it means that we do not know whether they are issuing temporary licenses. Please call and ask, then post the answer here so that we may add them to the list as issuing or not issuing temporary licenses.

All you have to do is say, "Hi. Are you issuing temporary renewal firearms licenses at the time of application for a five year renewal license?"

They will probably tell you there is no such thing as a renewal license anymore, in which case, you may want to ask, just to clarify, whether they will issue you a temporary license when you apply for another license.

Then post your answer (with the county) here. Thanks.

I know we have more than 13 counties, out of 159 counties, of people visiting here. :D
I added Dawson to the above list. Thanks.[/quote:1mai7ean]

Please add Henry County to the list of not following the law
 
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