Taser Test

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Malum Prohibitum, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I thought you guys might be interested in what happens when one gets "tasered." This guy decided to find out, and he asked his friend to zap him and see . . .

    Link Here

    :D
     
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    When is it APPROPRIATE to use the Taser? I think it is about the same time an officer would be justified in using his baton (which means no tasering 7 year old girls - I mean, we would not tolerate police officers beating a 7 year old with batons, would we?).

    But it seems to me that police just use it whenever they want to.

    Take the example of a student in a university library. The police identify students at night for security reasons. One student refuses to identify himself, so the oficers ask him to leave. The student refuses to leave, so the officers decide to "escort" him out. The student goes limp and lies down on the floor, not cooperating, but not offering any physical resistance or threat to the officers (other than shouting to the other students in the library).

    Zap!

    Whole thing caught on video.

    I must say that I think this is a very inappropriate use of the Taser. If we would not want officers going to town with batons on this student who lies down with no further resistance, then I think the principle applies equally well to Tasers.

    Cops Taser Guy Who Lies Down!

    Any opinions?
     

  3. USMC - Retired

    USMC - Retired Active Member

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    Tasers and stun guns fall under the catagory of weapons listed as "less leathal". Notice that the term is "less lethal" and not "non-leathal". Given that these weapons have on some occations caused the death of thier intended targets, I personally feel that they should not be used in any situation that would not stand up to the test required for use of lethal force. Some LEO's have taken to use them as a form of punishment if someone acts in a way they don't like or resists arrest. Last time I checked punishment for crimes was up to a judge and jury, no the cop on the street.
     
  4. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    :righton: My thoughts exactly
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I disagree strongly. I think they should be used anytime a person may be offering violence, even non-lethal, towards an officer. In other words, when somebody wants to fight.

    It seems, though, that officers are using it just as a tool of "compliance." Oh, you want to lay down? Zap!

    This kid should have been handcuffed and dragged out, not zapped. Didn't they still have to drag him out after they zapped him? If so, what was the purpose of zapping him?
     
  6. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

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    I agree with USMC-Retired. A cop should not be the judge for punishment.

    "oh you don't want to listen... Zap." Umm... That sounds like a law suit brewing.

    But, yes if a subject wants to fight then by all means defend yourself with a tazer. Always go one level up on the attacker.
     
  7. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    The problem with just allowing it for violence, is that it is subject to a very wide interpretation. What all could be explained as a violent manner? Being angry and shouting?

    I think the level should be if potential harm of oneself or others is thought will happen but not yet at the lethal force (firearm) level, then taser them. In that if the LEO gets close they would get injured, but not lethally. Such as a big criminal and female LEO it would be ok, but not a big LEO and an old lady.

    I would allow prisons to use them for violent inmates.

    In any event I agree that tasering an old woman for refusing to leave a friend's nursing home is way too low a threshold.
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I would allow prisons to use it as a rite of passage for inmate to get meals. :D

    But, as for non-convicted people, I think it should not be used, as I said above, unless a baton would be justified. Nobody would think it reasonable to beat this guy with a baton just because he was not going to assist in walking himself out the door, so he should not have been Tasered. Nobody would think it justified to beat on a 7 year old girl under any conceivable circumstances, so she should not have been Tasered.

    As USMC Retired said, the propaganda is that it is a "less lethal alternative." If that is the case, then let us not transform it into "first option if you don't like what somebody is doing."

    I don't know about every state, but in Georgia I think it accurate to say that a police officer may apply no more force during an arrest than you can. Would any of you be justified in Tasering this guy?
    :shock:

    I recognize that there is force inherent in every arrest and that the courts give a lot of leeway to the officer, who must sometimes make a split second decision and must maintain control so as not to get hurt. But there is no indication that this student was going to hurt anybody. Again, what was the purpose of the Tasering? They still had to drag him out.

    It is almost like they just wanted to Taser him. :twisted:
     
  9. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

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    I'll say one thing short in defense of LEO's.

    They should have every mesure to protect themselfs. And they are the one's in the field putting there life's on the line. We should give them the benifit of the doubt. However that's why there is review boards and such when ever the use of force is used.

    GS1 your right. There is a lot that would be left for interpretation. But then again everything with any use of force is left up for the persons interpretation who is about to use the level of force. For example...

    The use of Deadly force in self defense and Defense of others.
    Ok, one person can say getting jumped by three people is a level that is equal to deadly force. There for justify's deadly force. Another man would say no because he could possibly use a lesser means to defend himself. Such as OC spray.

    Well that's why it is left up to the man getting beaten or the man who watches it and trys to help. To determine if deadly force is justifiable.

    Back to the disscussion about Tasers. GS1 said well does shouting an being angry could justify a LEO to feel threatened and feel he has to use a Tazer. That is called TEMPER AND INTENT. And it does leave alot up to interpretation. And I think it has too. It has to be left up to the man in the field making the decison. But i'm sure LEO's are also instructed to use the lowest level of force. If a man is shouting and angry. They should use lower levels of the continum of force to gain control of this potentally dangerious situation. I.e. Talking to the individual first. then so on and so on.
     
  10. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah! That 7 year old girl was gonna get 'em if they didn't Taser her, and quick!

    :D
     
  11. kkennett

    kkennett New Member

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    With regard to Tasering this student at UCLA, I watched the videos on youtube. Let me be clear, this kid is a prick college student who thinks he's big stuff. I lived in California for years and saw many of his type. This guy is one of those who was making his statement about the big bad men in blue. That being said, he is just that: a hotheaded kid. The police are supposed to be better than that. Laying limp on the floor and yelling at other people while 3 to 4 officers stand around is not a situation which threatens their safety in any way. It reallly is fodder for a good laugh. Here is a supposed adult laying on the floor screaming about being oppressed because someone asked him for his ID in a college library with a clearly posted, regularly enforced policy. Just cuff him, stand there and laugh until someone with a stretcher arrives, and haul him out of there. His friends will respect you for a cool-headed approach to an idiot, and you'll have done the right thing to boot. Now, if he needs a couple of love taps back at the station, well...
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I was thinking about just dragging him out by the scruff of the neck . . .


    Do you have a link to the Youtube video for us?
     
  13. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    From Reason Magazine, article titled Shocked to Death:

    Tasers have become especially controversial in Florida, where police recently have zapped a 6-year-old boy, a fleeing 12-year-old girl (allegedly drunk), a 14-year-old girl in the back of a squad car, and a wheelchair-bound man brandishing scissors. It's policy in at least three Florida police departments that Tasers are appropriate for suspects merely offering "passive physical resistance" without posing any threat to officers or the public.
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    That's what the National Republican Congressional Committee is doing with its latest horror flick, which features a 7-year-old girl getting zapped, Frankenstein-style, with electricity.

    "TASERS! 7-YEAR-OLDS! 50,000 VOLTS!" the ad's graphics exclaim.

    The ad is referring to a non-binding resolution last year, sponsored by Charterite Councilman Christopher Smitherman, what would have asked the Cincinnati Police Department to change its policy on the use of the stun guns on children under 11. Democratic Councilman John Cranley, who is opposing Republican Steve Chabot in the 1st District congressional race, voted against the resolution and in support of the police policy.
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    13 year old girl tasered by cops while in handcuffs
    by repost Wednesday, May. 18, 2005 at 12:35 PM


    JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- An officer has been suspended for zapping a 13-year-old girl at least twice with a stun gun while she was handcuffed in his caged patrol car.

    :shock:

    Nelson, a 6-foot-2 officer weighing 300 pounds, allegedly used the low-setting stun mode :roll: when the 4-foot-8 Kallead wormed the handcuffs from behind her back and would not do as directed. "The situation was under control at this point," the internal report said.

    Sgt. D.E. Smith, who was called to the scene, said, "Please don't tell me this is the person you Tased."

    :lol:



    Link to Original News Story
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Cop uses Taser on 9 year old girl in handcuffs

    "A handcuffed 9-year-old girl subdued with a Taser by South Tucson police is among a growing group of toddlers and youngsters the device has been used on nationally."


    This is just wrong. :soapbox:


    Records kept by Taser International of Scottsdale show that as of six months ago, two 1-year-olds, one 2-year-old, two 3-year-olds, two 4-year-olds, one 5-year-old, one 6-year-old and one 7-year-old had been hit with Tasers, though most of the toddlers were hit inadvertently.


    Most? What in the hell?

    :?

    Link to original story
     
  17. USMC - Retired

    USMC - Retired Active Member

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    Seems to fit the definition of child abuse and endanngerment if you ask me, why arn't these sadists in jail?! :x
     
  18. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Miami-Dade police tasered a 6-year-old boy
    The principal, Maria Mason, called 911 after the child, who has not been identified, broke a picture frame in the assistant principal's office.
    . . .
    Then the officer contacted a supervisor to see if there was a policy specifically prohibiting the use of a stun gun on a child. There isn't, and the officer was told to do what she felt was necessary.

    . . .
    Yet others in the community wondered why four adults -- the three officers and the security guard -- weren't able to control a 6-year-old without resorting to a stun gun.


    They must be anti-police stinkin' hippies.

    Link to original story
     
  19. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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  20. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Found it!

    Link to Video