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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was thinking that being "a gun guy,"
I really ought to have a dedicated home defense weapon that has features that I consider to be ideal or nearly ideal for that role. I have never had one! I've had a bunch of guns that are 'pretty good' in the home defense role, but nothing chosen just for that purpose, optimized for that.

But, the thing is, I don't wanna spend a crapton of money on it because, honestly, I don't think that's a good return on investment. The odds of me needing a home defense carbine or SBR are too low for me to spend thousands of dollars on getting one that's ideal.
I'm willing to spend a few hundred dollars though.


Critical feature- it must be suppressor ready, or I will have to spend money to have the muzzle threaded or buy whatever adapters need to be bought to make the thing work with a suppressor.

Critical feature-- it must be a pistol caliber cartridge, and there has to be an ample supply of subsonic ammo for it.
9 mm would be acceptable because I know I can get 147 grain hollow points in that caliber. 40 caliber and 45 ACP are also good choices. I don't really care about it's caliber matching the caliber of other firearms I own.

Pretty important feature-- it has to have a shoulder stock, or a (wink, nudge) "pistol arm stabilization brace" that I can easily and effectively use like a shoulder stock. In fact, I'd probably be willing to spend the $200 and register the thing as an SBR in order to get a proper stock for it rather than an ill fitting pistol brace that doesn't really fill that role.

Pretty Important Feature: Short overall length (OAL) even with the stock extended (if it folds or telescopes at all) and with a suppressor on the muzzle. I want it to be compact, not just for wielding inside a narrow hallway of my home, but I also want it to fit easily in a vehicle should I decide to "bug out" and travel with this gun propped on the floorboard & passengers seat next to me.

Any ideas?


Things that aren't important to me:

- Commando teams use it.

-- It's got a great finish.

-- Every flat surface on the gun is covered with Picatinny rails so you can mount 11 different accessories on this weapon so that it will look like a Swiss Army knife with all the different blades and tools unfolded.

.

Font Material property Service Office supplies Fashion accessory




- extra-high Magazine capacity. I don't really need 30 rounds and I don't want a very long magazine that sticks down 8 inches below the gun's receiver. If I had a .223 caliber AR 15 in this role, I would use it with a standard 20 round aluminum magazine. But I would prefer a staggered column magazine that holds 12 to 18 rounds over a single stack mag that holds 7 to 9 shots.
 

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Suppressed CZ Scorpion is what I have been considering. There is a new generation just about to be released.



Easy to SBR, easy to mount red dot optics for CQB, easy to suppress, and lots of aftermarket support for the previous version (the one available right now) that will probably carry over to this new generation. If you don't want to adopt the new platform, the current one, released in 2014 was probably CZ's most successful and popular product ever, so grab one. Plenty of aftermarket support and useful for all the things mentioned above.

This is the current one, with suppressor and red dot



Click here for that photo as a video. They did a full auto conversion (but still keep the pistol brace, lol!) and test it out on a bulletproof backpack panel. Cool stuff: Full Auto CZ Scorpion EVO vs. Our Bulletproof Backpack Panel

Plenty of short AR15s in 9mm out there, too.


CMMG has shorter ones, too, if that is too long. Christensen Arms makes similar. Very easy to convert to SBR.

Other thoughts, Sig Sauer MPX Copperhead in FDE. Burger Thomet GHM Gen 2 (although that one might price you out). Kalashnikov makes a 9mm AK now, although I do not know how available it is with the current geopolitical situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
CZ Scorpion in the carbine version,
pistol version,
or an SBR variant of one of those?
 

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Me?

I was planning on pistol, with a brace (the same brace shown in that video, ironically), and a form 1 to SBR it later with a real stock if the AFT got to feeling frisky. Pistol cartridge carbines might have their place, but home defense I did not consider to be a good use of such a length. I don't have enough experience with binary triggers to know if they are reliable enough for home defense use, so that was a "maybe, try it out and see" item. Red dot sight. That was my thought.

Or spending the $$$ and getting an H&K MP5, which is what I really wanted . . . :cry:
 

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Just make sure everyone in the house is equipped with ear protection 24/7. All of my ear protection is equipped with 2 way radio communication and has a 3 mile range. I have more than enough for my wife and I and even a few extra for anyone who may be visiting. Less expensive than a suppressor and works better when separating to establish field of fire dominance. No need to yell out when a whisper will do.
 

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Sbr, intermediate cartridge, red dot. Suppressed. Easy, fast, no fooling with ear protection, and the other side benefit is that suppressors mask flash and sound locating to some extent.
 

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I keep looking for a bullpup with an integral suppressor in 300 BLK or .45 ACP. Absent a good option there, I keep coming back to a MAC-10…

Absurd? Sure, but it would be an upgrade on the 8 rounds of 3” double buck (120 .30 caliber holes) I can currently drop in 2 seconds.

The remote contender I’ve been contemplating would be to SBR a CMR-30 and replace that length of barrel with a suppressor but the holdout is that little voice that keeps saying “but rimfire!”
 

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I know I know — not pistol caliber, but I can attest that the Daniel Defense M4ISR is a solid choice. Buy once, cry once though…
 

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Go with a 10mm carbine. Hi Points are near indestructible and yes, I would rely on one.

Nemo

 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Go with a 10mm carbine. Hi Points are near indestructible and yes, I would rely on one.

Nemo


I know Hi-point carbines are reliable and a good value for the money.

My issue with them generally is they don't come with short barrels, and by the time I put a 7 inch long suppressor on the end of a 16 1/4 inch barrel that's longer than I would like.

If I bought one with a 16 inch barrel and had a gunsmith modify it by moving the front sight back as far as it could go and threading the new muzzle, I'd be looking at a couple hundred dollars for that modification.

If Hi-Point barrels were easy to change yourself in a basement workshop, and IF they sold a 10 inch long muzzle-threaded barrel in one of the calibers I'm interested in, I think I would do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Go with a 10mm carbine.
No, a 10mm would always be supersonic especially from a barrel of the length that I'm thinking of. So that wouldn't work.
I want a subsonic round:

40 S&W or 45 ACP would be my top choices.
 

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For me it was an inexpensive AR built with a short barrel and 300 Blackout using 220 grain subsonic ammo. A suppressor screws on almost any Barrel for AR’s. I do have an SB brace on it and a red dot with a laser. I like the red dot, my wife likes the laser. Overall cost with the poverty pony upper and lower is not much over 500.
 
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No, a 10mm would always be supersonic especially from a barrel of the length that I'm thinking of. So that wouldn't work.
I want a subsonic round:

40 S&W or 45 ACP would be my top choices.
Not bad choices, but insisting on subsonic rounds is probably not worth the loss in firepower. Ultimate quiet is less important than having enough firepower to penetrate body armor as more and more often evil people are using body armor.

I like a suppressed intermediate round like 762x39, 300 blackout, or even 556. Quiet enough not to completely deafen you, but far more firepower than 40 or 45.

Fwiw, bedside pistol is a fnx 45 with red dot and suppressor. 14 rnd capacity should be enough to scare off most, or enough to get to my sbr.

And yes, I keep a vest next to the bed too. Think I'm paranoid? You should see all the fire extinguishers stashed around the house. :)
 

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And yes, I keep a vest next to the bed too. Think I'm paranoid? You should see all the fire extinguishers stashed around the house. :)
I resemble that. Even my vehicles each have 2.. They did come in handy one time on an 185 car fire. Didn't put it out but between my 2 and the 1 the cop had did suppress it long enough for the fire department to get there and finish the job.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I forgot about the .300 AAC Blackout. Yeah, with 200+ grain bullets, subsonic, that would work for home defense and shooting indoors. And I like that a short 20-round magazine would give me enough ammo without sticking out too far below the weapon. I'm not enthused about the idea of a 10-round single-column mag in a Hi-Point carbine (though I hear there are other mag options for that model).
 

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I forgot about the .300 AAC Blackout. Yeah, with 200+ grain bullets, subsonic, that would work for home defense and shooting indoors. And I like that a short 20-round magazine would give me enough ammo without sticking out too far below the weapon. I'm not enthused about the idea of a 10-round single-column mag in a Hi-Point carbine (though I hear there are other mag options for that model).
Yes there are extended mags for the Hi-Point carbines.
 
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