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No link I can provide y'all, but the student who wrote the violent story has lost the appeal in the Eleventh Circuit, which cited the recent school shootings.
Student Loses Free Speech (violent Story) case
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I think I found it:
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200614706.pdf
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200614706.pdf
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Did any of you read what she wrote?
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Close Case
I read the disturbing story she wrote. I have no reason to think it was anything other than just an adolescent fantasy. Granted, there are a very small percentage of people who are twisted enough to carry out such a fantasy given the right circumstances, but this is rare. A lot more people think about doing bad things than actually do them.
My beef with this decision, and the other one cited in the concurring opinion where some student got in trouble for creating a computer-generated image of somebody shooting a teacher, is that thinking or even talking about doing a bad thing is not a crime and cannot be penalized, unless the talking about it is done in a way that is threatening or disruptive.
So, I think it would clearly be wrong to expel a student who writes in her own private diary, not intended for publication or distribution, "I hate my math teacher and dream about shooting him." That child may properly be subject to additional scrutiny, searches of her purse, locker, and book-bag, and that child may be referred to a counselor or therapist for an evaluation, but that kid should NOT be kicked out of school. That would be wrong, as she didn't DO anything bad, as contrasted with only thinking out loud about doing something bad.
But on the other hand, it is clearly disruptive to a school to have students threaten teachers, and I'd say that "threat" would include the distribution of a written story about how the writer murders specific people at that school. The key here is distribution / publication. If this girl was passing her notebook around with the purpose of showing this sick and twisted story to other students, she was TRYING to cause a disturbance at the school. She was calling attention to herself and intended to make people think she was dangerous. It succeded. She got her wish. So now she has to live with the consequences.
If she didn't want to be treated like a dangerous psycopath, she should not have portrayed herself as one under such conditions. She should have kept her inner demons to herself.
(Ultimately, maybe it's good that she did this. This could have been a "cry for help" and now she's got such help, or intervention, or at least the attention that she craved.)
I read the disturbing story she wrote. I have no reason to think it was anything other than just an adolescent fantasy. Granted, there are a very small percentage of people who are twisted enough to carry out such a fantasy given the right circumstances, but this is rare. A lot more people think about doing bad things than actually do them.
My beef with this decision, and the other one cited in the concurring opinion where some student got in trouble for creating a computer-generated image of somebody shooting a teacher, is that thinking or even talking about doing a bad thing is not a crime and cannot be penalized, unless the talking about it is done in a way that is threatening or disruptive.
So, I think it would clearly be wrong to expel a student who writes in her own private diary, not intended for publication or distribution, "I hate my math teacher and dream about shooting him." That child may properly be subject to additional scrutiny, searches of her purse, locker, and book-bag, and that child may be referred to a counselor or therapist for an evaluation, but that kid should NOT be kicked out of school. That would be wrong, as she didn't DO anything bad, as contrasted with only thinking out loud about doing something bad.
But on the other hand, it is clearly disruptive to a school to have students threaten teachers, and I'd say that "threat" would include the distribution of a written story about how the writer murders specific people at that school. The key here is distribution / publication. If this girl was passing her notebook around with the purpose of showing this sick and twisted story to other students, she was TRYING to cause a disturbance at the school. She was calling attention to herself and intended to make people think she was dangerous. It succeded. She got her wish. So now she has to live with the consequences.
If she didn't want to be treated like a dangerous psycopath, she should not have portrayed herself as one under such conditions. She should have kept her inner demons to herself.
(Ultimately, maybe it's good that she did this. This could have been a "cry for help" and now she's got such help, or intervention, or at least the attention that she craved.)
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Well for some reason before I read the opinion I thought this case was from one of the new stories after the VT shootings. Of course our federal court system doesn't work that quickly. I admit this is the first I've heard of this incident.
As a general rule I hate the way public schools are run because all they seem to try to do is make the kids subservient and when that force is the government that makes me a little antsy. On the other hand, I realize that a lot of kids today are too stupid to understand libertarian principles (at least at that age). On the other hand again it's the school systems problem that they haven't given children enough education in civics and such to understand personal rights and responsibilities.
The thing that irks me the most is that back when I was in High School 97-01. My friends and I wrote an adaptation of Lord of the Flies that included everyone in our high school lit class. As anyone who has read that book can attest too, a lot of the kids died. It wasn't malicious or anything, more along the lines of trying to demonstrate that perhaps being a preppy bitch wasn't the only thing in life. But under the holding of this case my school district could have done anything to us and gotten away with it. Since out of our group there have been two law students and one US Marine. Yeah, big threat there.
I seriously doubt the holding of this case had been any different if the girl had "covered her tracks" by changing the name of the math teacher and changing key facts. The school district would have still found something to nail her on and they still would have gotten away with it.
As a general rule I hate the way public schools are run because all they seem to try to do is make the kids subservient and when that force is the government that makes me a little antsy. On the other hand, I realize that a lot of kids today are too stupid to understand libertarian principles (at least at that age). On the other hand again it's the school systems problem that they haven't given children enough education in civics and such to understand personal rights and responsibilities.
The thing that irks me the most is that back when I was in High School 97-01. My friends and I wrote an adaptation of Lord of the Flies that included everyone in our high school lit class. As anyone who has read that book can attest too, a lot of the kids died. It wasn't malicious or anything, more along the lines of trying to demonstrate that perhaps being a preppy bitch wasn't the only thing in life. But under the holding of this case my school district could have done anything to us and gotten away with it. Since out of our group there have been two law students and one US Marine. Yeah, big threat there.
I seriously doubt the holding of this case had been any different if the girl had "covered her tracks" by changing the name of the math teacher and changing key facts. The school district would have still found something to nail her on and they still would have gotten away with it.
I've read excerpts. The girl definitely deserved a dressing down from her folks for being stupid.
I've dreamed about seriously harming some major public figures... that doesn't make me guilty of actually harming them. Are we prosecuting thought-crime now?
I've dreamed about seriously harming some major public figures... that doesn't make me guilty of actually harming them. Are we prosecuting thought-crime now?
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