[Malum Prohibitum]

http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2011_12/sum/sr1.htm

SR 1 State and Local Governments; urged to promote public awareness of dangers of celebratory gunfire (PF)

 

[Rugerer]

committing to studying and adopting tougher criminal sanctions for those who perform celebratory gunfire resulting in injury or death to another person

The existing laws on injury and death aren't tough enough?

I'm curious about this phenomenon. Is it "suddenly" happening more, more people shooting, more people getting hit? Or is it that the media has just latched on a new story to harp on for a while? (Not that by "harp," I mean it's trivial thing, just that the media has selection bias for stories.)

I'd never heard of any occurrence before the child in a church last year (which had all the elements for getting the media attention).

 

[RickN]

The existing laws on injury and death aren't tough enough?

Which politician gets more TV time -- the guy pounded the podium yelling we need more laws 'for the children'? Or the guy who points out that it's already illegal so it's been taken care of?

 

[gunsmoker]

Somebody show me "the law" that makes it illegal to fire a gun in the air and not know where the bullet will land.
Assume that the shooter isn't expecting to kill anyone or damage any property.
The shooter thinks his bullets will just harmlessly fall to the ground in people's back yards and on the streets and in empty parking lots of closed businesses.
What is the crime?

Reckless Conduct, 16-5-60 ?

Now, take a look at the specific language there. It seems to require that the arresting officer identify some other person who was endangered by the reckless conduct. How would a cop get that information? Suppose the witnesses are 100% sure the guy fired his AK-47 into the air, but they aren't sure at what angle the barrel was pointed or what direction the rounds headed? How will the cop identify a victim of this crime?

It might be better to have a specific law outlawing the act of firing a rifle or pistol in the air where the landing site of the bullets is not known or not reasonably calculated to be a safe backstop.

 

[GooberTim]

Somebody show me "the law" that makes it illegal to fire a gun in the air and not know where the bullet will land.

I bet the recent "celebratory" shooting accidents were in violation of 16-11-103

 

[AzB]

I'm curious about this phenomenon. Is it "suddenly" happening more, more people shooting, more people getting hit?

I'd never heard of any occurrence before the child in a church last year (which had all the elements for getting the media attention).

I've lived in the metro area for almost 50 years, and I only noticed it as the neighborhood here became predominantly recently immigrated folk. My non- scientific conclusion is that celebratory gunfire is socially acceptable in many of the areas these people came from, and they're simply continuing the tradition.

No one in my circle of friends and family have ever participated, excepting a couple cases where we were camping out in the middle of nowhere, and one instance that involved mental illness.

Az

 

[Savvy Jack]

Very intelligent thinking there Gloria. :screwy:

 

[GAGunOwner]

Another law is not going to stops these people from shooting their guns, duh.

 

[jmanon]

Somebody show me "the law" that makes it illegal to fire a gun in the air and not know where the bullet will land.

O.C.G.A. s 16-5-3:

a) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of an unlawful act when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so by the commission of an unlawful act other than a felony. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of an unlawful act, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years.

In many urban locations where celebratory gunfire is more common, it is illegal to discharge a firearm.

And even in places where it is not illegal, I'll bet a jury would convict of this:

(b) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so, by the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner likely to cause death or great bodily harm. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.

 

[phantoms]

Somebody show me "the law" that makes it illegal to fire a gun in the air and not know where the bullet will land.

O.C.G.A. s 16-5-3:

a) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of an unlawful act when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so by the commission of an unlawful act other than a felony. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of an unlawful act, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years.

In many urban locations where celebratory gunfire is more common, it is illegal to discharge a firearm.

And even in places where it is not illegal, I'll bet a jury would convict of this:

[quote:3k2g0pph]

(b) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so, by the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner likely to cause death or great bodily harm. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.

[/quote:3k2g0pph]
That only applies if the bullet causes a death. What if it only wounds someone, damages someone's property or even falls harmlessly in the woods?

 

[45_Fan]

Just to explore the issue, what happens if 20 people legally fire their identical Glock 17s into the air at the same time?
And nobody dies?
And a toddler is killed by a bullet from the sky 20 seconds later?

What happens if somebody intentionally fires a bullet not knowing or caring where it will land, but it will not be on their property?
Is this wrong?

 

[jmanon]

Just to explore the issue, what happens if 20 people legally fire their identical Glock 17s into the air at the same time?
And nobody dies?
And a toddler is killed by a bullet from the sky 20 seconds later?

They might all get acquitted (of manslaughter unless the state could prove which gun the bullet came from with ballistic analysis. If it could be proven which gun, that person gets manslaughter, the rest get reckless conduct.

If no one dies, they probably all get convictions for reckless conduct.

O.C.G.A. s 16-5-60:

(b) A person who causes bodily harm to or endangers the bodily safety of another person by consciously disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk that his act or omission will cause harm or endanger the safety of the other person and the disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would exercise in the situation is guilty of a misdemeanor.

 

[45_Fan]

If no one dies, they probably all get convictions for reckless conduct.

O.C.G.A. s 16-5-60:

(b) A person who causes bodily harm to or endangers the bodily safety of another person by consciously disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk that his act or omission will cause harm or endanger the safety of the other person and the disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would exercise in the situation is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Which one/who?

 

[jmanon]

If no one dies, they probably all get convictions for reckless conduct.

O.C.G.A. s 16-5-60:

(b) A person who causes bodily harm to or endangers the bodily safety of another person by consciously disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk that his act or omission will cause harm or endanger the safety of the other person and the disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would exercise in the situation is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Which one/who?

It doesn't have to be a specific person, as that refers back to the generic "another person." You don't need to know that someone is put in danger. There only needs to be a "substantial and unjustifiable risk" that your action will "endanger the safety" of "another person." That is a jury question, and I doubt many juries would take long to conclude that firing a gun into the air, for no real reason, creates a substantial and unjustifiable risk to the safety of others.

 

[Curmudgeon]

A little mandatory gun safety training in all public schools and legalized fireworks would do much more than this bill in solving the problem.

 

[Stooldaddy]

A little mandatory gun safety training in all public schools and legalized fireworks would do much more than this bill in solving the problem.

I really wish we had Fireworks!

 

[RedDawnTheMusical]

A little mandatory gun safety training in all public schools and legalized fireworks would do much more than this bill in solving the problem.

+1

 

[Curmudgeon]

Every state that touches Georgia sells fireworks. Go figure.

 

[Ex313]

I'm from the Detroit area. In fact, I used to live probably 10 to 20 blocks from the northernmost borders of that city.
I could hear the celebratory gun fire from where I lived. I could stand on the porch and hear it well enough to tell you if it was a pistol or a rifle.
I knew guys who lived in Detroit and they used to tell me about how they looked forward to NY's Eve so they could shoot guns in their back yard.

And every year, there were stories in the news of a kid or two getting hit by stray bullets. From what I can tell, these bullets weren't fired at 90 degree angles, but slightly less than that.
Referring to Hatcher's Notebook, a .30 caliber machine gun bullet fired at a 90 degree angle returns to the ground at roughly 300 fps. So 9mm, .45, .32 would be coming down at the same velocity. That would be enough to bust through someone's roof at least.

 

[Savvy Jack]

I'm from the Detroit area. In fact, I used to live probably 10 to 20 blocks from the northernmost borders of that city.
I could hear the celebratory gun fire from where I lived. I could stand on the porch and hear it well enough to tell you if it was a pistol or a rifle.
I knew guys who lived in Detroit and they used to tell me about how they looked forward to NY's Eve so they could shoot guns in their back yard.

And every year, there were stories in the news of a kid or two getting hit by stray bullets. From what I can tell, these bullets weren't fired at 90 degree angles, but slightly less than that.
Referring to Hatcher's Notebook, a .30 caliber machine gun bullet fired at a 90 degree angle returns to the ground at roughly 300 fps. So 9mm, .45, .32 would be coming down at the same velocity. That would be enough to bust through someone's roof at least.

Myth busted