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Discussion Starter #21
Well? I have had no luck in discovering the answer to this question.



Does anybody know whether the State of Georgia was requiring social security numbers for firearms licenses in 1975? Can anybody find out?


:idea:
 

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Sledgehammer
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MP, I don't know where to find the answer, either, but I understand that not every county requires them even today. Plus, I don't think there is anything in the state law that actually requires it. So, I'm not sure the privacy act exception would apply, because a local practice not mandated by state law doesn't seem like it would trigger the exception.
 

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I know I didnt have to provide my SSN card in Cobb County. I actually used my AL driver's license as ID and my newly signed lease for proof of residency and that was it.

I had my passport and a pay stub for backup but they didnt need any more confirmation.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
jrm said:
MP, I don't know where to find the answer, either, but I understand that not every county requires them even today. Plus, I don't think there is anything in the state law that actually requires it. So, I'm not sure the privacy act exception would apply, because a local practice not mandated by state law doesn't seem like it would trigger the exception.
If you pull up a copy of the Eleventh Circuit case from above, they spend a great deal of time discussing the fact that not all counties required it, but some did (in the context of voter registration).
 

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Sledgehammer
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I read the circuit court opinion (and the district court opinion affirmed by the circuit court), and my comments don't change. The state argued in the case that there was a statewide requirement for social security numbers because the state-issued form for voter registration had a space for the number and the law said an application could be rejected based on a failure to provide information requested. The court found there was no requirement, despite the form, because counties did not enforce it and because the form said the number only was required if known.

There is no statewide requirement for SSNs on GFL applications. There is no statewide form for applications. An individual county could try to argue that it had a system in place, but the county is not administering its own firearms license. The county is administering a state licensing system.

Absent a statewide requirement for SSNs, I just don't see how a county could overcome the privacy act, even in light of the Schwier case.
 

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There is a state wide form for applications.
16-11-129(a)
The Department of Public Safety shall furnish application forms and license forms required by this Code section. The forms shall be furnished to each judge of each probate court within the state at no cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Um, I did not expect your position to change, as I think it is the correct one. I was merely giving you some support for it! :wink: This is one of the reasons that the plaintiffs won!

I knew nobody had read it.

The number one obstace is finding someone who will refuse to disclose a SSN and thereby assure himself of not being issued a license (the "benefit" under the Privacy Act) so as to have a cause of action under 42 USC 1983.
 

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Sledgehammer
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Gunstar1, you are correct. What I meant to say is that there is not a statewide form that requires a SSN. The counties that require it (such as Fulton) want to see an actual SS card.
 

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I would ask then how can the court require it if the state does not. But so many courts ignore what the law says anyway it really doesn't surprise me that they do what they want.

I used to think courts were places where the law was followed to the letter, as they should know it. Turns out they know it enough to break it without penalty.
 

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Sledgehammer
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Gunstar1, I think the short answer is that the probate court can't ask for it when the state does not require it.

One other point from the Schwier case that's worth mentioning. The court made a point of noting that if the SSN is not requested to confirm identification, then the privacy act exemption does not apply, regardless of the other factors. It is hard to argue that the number is needed for identification when we both know that NICS checks are done without SSN, and that some counties seem to be able to get background checks done without supplying SSNs.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
jrm said:
MP, I don't know where to find the answer, either, but I understand that not every county requires them even today. Plus, I don't think there is anything in the state law that actually requires it. So, I'm not sure the privacy act exception would apply, because a local practice not mandated by state law doesn't seem like it would trigger the exception.
jwd posted at packing.org yesterday that Carroll County did not require his SSN.

I do not know when this was that he applied or if this is still the case.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Malum Prohibitum said:
The number one obstace is finding someone who will refuse to disclose a SSN and thereby assure himself of not being issued a license (the "benefit" under the Privacy Act) so as to have a cause of action under 42 USC 1983.
Just another mention . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Malum Prohibitum said:
Does anybody know whether the State of Georgia was requiring social security numbers for firearms licenses in 1975? Can anybody find out?
I think this is going to be a matter of proof . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #36
jrm said:
What I meant to say is that there is not a statewide form that requires a SSN.
Jrm, how do you know this? :?:
 

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Geez, it was so long ago, but I don't recall being asked for my SS card at the South Fulton County office. And even if they asked for it, I wouldn't have been able to provide it - I lost it years ago. The only documentation I took was a GA driver's license, passport, and probaby a copy of my birth certificate. My GA firearms license came in about 120 days later.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
jrm said:
MP, some counties don't require an SSN. So, there is not a form, used state wide, that requires it.
While this may have been true at one point in time (and I do not now know that such is the case), I think it is no longer a factual statement. :wink:
 
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