[Malum Prohibitum]

The definition of bars in the new gun law was not simply invented for that purpose. It was, like the definition of long arm, stolen from a pre-existing Code section.

O.C.G.A. § 31-12A-2 is a set of definitions in the Health title, under the chapter about "Smokefree Air." Some of you will remember when this nonsmoking law was forced upon private property owners, the Georgia Smokefree Air Act of 2005. Anyway, the first definition found there is:

(1) "Bar" means an establishment that is devoted to the serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption by guests on the premises and in which the serving of food is only incidental to the consumption of those beverages, including, but not limited to, taverns, nightclubs, cocktail lounges, and cabarets.

Sound familiar?

Is it ambiguous within this chapter? If not, can the same certainty be conveyed in the chapter on carrying weapons?

CHAPTER 12A. SMOKEFREE AIR 14
TITLE 31 Chapter 12A NOTE
§ 31-12A-1. Short title
§ 31-12A-2. Definitions
§ 31-12A-3. Smoking prohibited in state and local government buildings
§ 31-12A-4. Smoking prohibited in enclosed public places
§ 31-12A-5. Smoking prohibited in enclosed areas within places of employment; required communications
§ 31-12A-6. Exemptions
§ 31-12A-7. Smoking prohibited in designated nonsmoking places
§ 31-12A-8. "No Smoking" signs; ashtrays prohibited in nonsmoking areas
§ 31-12A-9. Public education program
§ 31-12A-10. Enforcement by the Department of Community Health and county boards of health
§ 31-12A-11. Local operating procedures
§ 31-12A-12. Other laws, rules, regulations, and ordinances not prohibited
§ 31-12A-13. Construction

The exemption relating to bars says, "All bars and restaurants to which access is denied to any person under the age of 18 and that do not employ any individual under the age of 18" :?

 

[seajay]

Ok so before it was illegal to carry in places that serve alcohol now they are saying it's illegal to carry in places where persons under 18 are not allowed?

OR...

Are they saying smoking and carrying is illegal?

Would this make the smoking section at some restaurants off limits?

Or could it be the whole restaurant if off limits because they do have a smoking area?

If I decided to open a restaurant that allowed smoking but didn't serve alcohol would it require permission for people to carry in it?

If I decided to open a restaurant that didn't allow smoking, persons under 18 or serve alcohol would it also require permission?

IMHO bar needs to be removed from the list entirely as well as churches (neither of which I patronize) and the airport. Those places being off limits are totally rediculous in the first place. I also don't attend any schools but I am not likely to go shooting one up either. There my be (but not likely) a GWL holder that would but there are lots more non GWL holders more prone to such a stupid act. Schools being on the list is just as stupid. Also IMHO the only places that should be off limits are lock ups and courtrooms. Lock ups could (and probably should) include secure areas of mental health facilities.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Bars and restaurants, Seajay. We are talking only about the definition of bars, not restaurants. Pay attention.

 

[ookoshi]

MP,

I guess one interesting question would be, is there any case law on OCGA 31-12A-2 on an establishment arguing they were a bar and not a restaurant for smoking purposes. If the judge ruled against them and said "No, you're a restaurant, no smoking," it would certainly be interesting.

This is particularly amusing because the state will find itself generally arguing things are NOT bars under OCGA 31-12A and arguing that things ARE bars under OCGA 16-20. They could easily find themselves on both sides of an argument in regards to the same establishment.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

They could easily find themselves on both sides of an argument

They do that all the time.

 

[seajay]

Bars and restaurants, Seajay. We are talking only about the definition of bars, not restaurants. Pay attention.

My point is that a "bar" is generally considered a place that serves alcohol and derrives 50% or more of it's sales from the sale of said alcohol. A restaurant is a generrally considered a place that derrives more than 50% of it's sales from the sale of food. This is except for 16-11-127. This is where they are calling anyplace other than one speciffically labeled as a restaurant a "bar" If you have a restaurant that allows smoking then you are no longer a restaurant but actually a bar just under other lables such as taveren or even "other". You get more than 50% of sales from food, are open and serve alcohol on Sunday but under 16-11-127 you are a bar. So you can carry your firearm to Mc'D's next door but you can't carry to Joe's Tavern without first obtaining permission.

Other states that allow carry have the 50% (some are 51%) rule to identify them as a "bar". Here except for those required to close on Sundays you can't tell what all is considered a bar without looking them up.

None the less restrictions on places to carry should be limited to those places where a reasonable person wouldn't carry in the first place. Such as inside a courtroom and lock ups. Lock ups are self explained. I wouldn't want the wife or husband going through a divorce to be able to blast a judge (or anyone else) because of the emotional stress they may be under. I also wouldn't want the friends or relatives of a defendant to make a mess in a courtroom if a conviction were handed down. It's a shame you have to tell people not to do this but if you don't someone will.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

My point is that a "bar" is generally considered a place that serves alcohol and derrives 50% or more of it's sales from the sale of said alcohol. A restaurant is a generrally considered a place that derrives more than 50% of it's sales from the sale of food.

Not in the gun law or the smoking law.

 

[ookoshi]

My point is that a "bar" is generally considered a place that serves alcohol and derrives 50% or more of it's sales from the sale of said alcohol.

"Generally" in your case only refers to the OCGA section on when establishments that serve alcohol can be open, and DoR state alcohol licensing regulations.

Is that more "general" than the weapon law or smoking law?

 

[rankhornjp]

deleted

 

[seajay]

My point is that a "bar" is generally considered a place that serves alcohol and derrives 50% or more of it's sales from the sale of said alcohol. A restaurant is a generrally considered a place that derrives more than 50% of it's sales from the sale of food.

Not in the gun law or the smoking law.

That I understood. that's why I said gennerally considered. That is anywhere but Georgia...

 

[seajay]

do definitions in one section control language in another section? If so, why isn't there just one section labeled "Definitions"?

Each code section has it's own set of definitions. They are usually more suited to apply to the code section they are in. It is possible to to have a term defined one way in a code section and it be defined entirely different in another to relate more closels with the subject of that code section.