[Firearmz]

On another board I frequently visit we were discussing sub-skills and transition. In our collective world of self defense and guns many people tend to see the gun as the answer to everything, everything from a stranger walking rapidly toward us to the knife wielding attacker. The truth be known your chances of being approached without a visible weapon or getting into a fist fight is more likely.

What we here and see in the news is only where a gun was put into play. There are far more physical assaults than gun fights, not that they don’t happen, just really less frequently. In saying that I feel we must take the OODA Loop and use it to our advantage as best we can. We need have a firm foundation in several areas in order to be effective.

Awareness and avoidance should be first, when this fails or we are caught behind the power curve other sub-skills will be come necessary. Hand to hand, chemicals, contact weapons, and then guns. Utilizing the appropriate one to meet the threat sufficiently to stop it: while remaining legal.

Legality is a real problem, yes I know we all or most of us feel that we should just be able to whip out our ghetto blaster and shoot the one wanting to do us harm and take our goods, but in the real world we can’t do that without facing along stint in Big Bubbas company.

So what should we do? Take the skill sets above, get training in each, integrating them all and knowing how to transition from one to the other smoothly. If we run into the golden glove thug that can box, boxing him may not be the best bet, however maybe his ground game is not up to snuff, moving into that will help us. In other words do not fight on the bad guys terms, constantly keep transitioning to keep him guessing and having to adapt to us.

This also comes into timing, the average street thug doesn’t really want to get caught, therefore they like to get close and commit their crimes in a confined manner. This keeps it discrete and less obvious to people around them. If Thug Boy has a gun rammed into your gut or throat going for your gun maybe not be a great idea at that point. Getting control and managing his weapon maybe a higher priority, timing the access to your weapon to your advantage.

Not getting shot, cut, or hit should be a higher priority than shooting him.

What is everyone’s take on this approach?

 

[tace]

give them your wallet and then shoot them in the back, is what I hear

 

[Mastino177]

Whatever it takes to survive!!! Whipping his a$$ is secondary.

 

[AV8R]

To me, it is all about advantage.

Being aware is crucial. Even with a gun to your gut you can dictate the next move if your head is clear and you can formulate a quick plan. You must always lead and make your adversary react to your actions. This will keep him out of his element and keep you in yours. Being unpredictable will give you an advantage as well. Thugs rely on sheep to act like sheep. When the sheep suddenly morphs into a dog, lion, or monkey then the thug is left guessing and wondering.

Tactics and mental acuity require discipline. With out those, skills are useless. You must be ready to act.

 

[Thorsen]

Firearmz, I think you hit the nail on the head. I have only had to rely on a firearm once in my life, but I have been in more than one situation where my wits or my fists were what was needed.

Unfortunately for me, now I am fat and out of shape, so I would simply have to shoot them :lol:

 

[gsusnake]

Two words and two words only apply here.

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.

For instance... I have training in several forms of martial arts, and rather advanced training (think black belts) in two forms. From that, I not only learned how to defend myself, and some really really cool looking moves with which to do so, but I also learned situational awareness.

When I walk in to a place, I tend to notice people. Usually you can tell by how a guy carries himself if he knows what he's doing with his fists or feet. Even as out of shape as I am (and I'm not that out of shape) I still carry myself in such a manner as to advertise a "don't f*** with me" attitude, or at least I try to.

I also find exits, sit so I can see a door, and evaluate new threats as they come near. Although this may sound paranoid, when I'm in Yellow (which I always try to be) everybody within about 20 feet is a potential threat. At Orange that moves up to about 50.

Another good tactic is to learn to use peripheral vision. If I'm sitting at a bar, I can usually see everyone who comes in the door by using the ubiquitous mirror that is behind EVERY bar ever made. Lots of places have mirrors in inconspicuous places to give the feeling that the dining room or whatever is bigger. USE THEM.

Just my :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:

 

[gsusnake]

When the sheep suddenly morphs into a dog, lion, or monkey then the thug is left guessing and wondering.

So does that mean instead of vomiting on myself, I should bark, roar, or throw my poo? :lol:

 

[budder]

When the sheep suddenly morphs into a dog, lion, or monkey then the thug is left guessing and wondering.

So does that mean instead of vomiting on myself, I should bark, roar, or throw my poo? :lol:

Sounds like a good day!

 

[wsweeks2]

Very good post Firearmz.

 

[VolGrad]

When the sheep suddenly morphs into a dog, lion, or monkey then the thug is left guessing and wondering.

:rotfl2:

This has to be the best line I have read on this forum to date. I know that wasn't the intent, but I love it. I may have to change my signature to this for a while.

 

[Bulldawg182]

FireArmz, excellent posts. One of the things you taught us at the defensive handgun class which really struck home to me is SA and the need to maintain a safe perimeter between yourself and strangers at all times. Your examples about establishing a 10' zone where your antennas should go up and then a 5' zone where you should act to put the entrant on notice that he's in the wrong place at the wrong time hit home for me. While we discussed many different situations where a BG might approach us up close and personal and how to defend, draw and fire in close quarters, there's definitely a need for more training in those defensive methods PRIOR to going to guns.

Unfortunately, most of us can't walk through our typical day with gun, knife, defensive flashlight, etc strapped to our waists so we're left with the choice between verbal commands to back off, hand to hand or gun. Personally, at 50 years old, (SHUT UP, BUDDER), a smoker, and a former wrestler, I feel I can hold my own with just about anyone for 30 seconds or so. After that, I'm gasping for air and hoping that 30 seconds was enough. If not, I'm in big trouble. So, my goal is to never have to take that 30 second risk and will take my chances with the gun and the law.

I'm open to learning more about the OODA Loop......whatever that stands for....and learning other skill sets that might help in defending myself against more typical day to day type confrontations. Let me know when your calendar offers this type of training.

 

[AeroShooter]

Firearmz, I think you hit the nail on the head. I have only had to rely on a firearm once in my life, but I have been in more than one situation where my wits or my fists were what was needed.

Unfortunately for me, now I am fat and out of shape, so I would simply have to shoot them :lol:

Actually, you could consider using Sumo techniques on them.

Of course, in any defense situation, wrist control is important.

 

[ber950]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_Loop

I'm open to learning more about the OODA Loop

 

[budder]

Firearmz, I think you hit the nail on the head. I have only had to rely on a firearm once in my life, but I have been in more than one situation where my wits or my fists were what was needed.

Unfortunately for me, now I am fat and out of shape, so I would simply have to shoot them :lol:

Actually, you could consider using Sumo techniques on them.

Of course, in any defense situation, wrist control is important.

I love that video.

 

[Bulldawg182]

wrist control is important.

Excellent technique!

 

[Sine Nomen]

Actually, you could consider using Sumo techniques on them.

Of course, in any defense situation, wrist control is important.

I guess that's another way. I've always been a fan of torso control either at the hips or the chest. Guess that's just the old wrestler coming out in me. Either way, step two would likely be the most effective.

 

[Ashe]

Something I was always told in ju-jitsu to emphasize the need to be aggressive was "If the fight lasts longer than 30 seconds, you've already lost."

While this isn't completely factual, it is a good guideline. Be agressive. End the fight as quickly as possible, there are many ways to end a fight quickly, I am a bit partial towards the break/dislocate something school of thought. Of course jamming your thumb into the attackers eye while grabbing his face works really well too.

 

[Sine Nomen]

Or you could try this uke:

 

[tace]

Watching one of my favorite shows last night, "COPS", this guy puts a gun to someone's neck trying to car jack. When the attacker shifts his attention looking at a woman coming by, the guy blocks the gun and proceeds to beat the living day lights out of the guy. Then he calls 911 and has the guy arrested, only after the cops picked up about 4-5 of his teeth from the alley.



At the end, the cop says "its nice to see the good guys win for once"

 

[slabertooch]

Something I was always told in ju-jitsu to emphasize the need to be aggressive was "If the fight lasts longer than 30 seconds, you've already lost."

While this isn't completely factual, it is a good guideline. Be agressive. End the fight as quickly as possible, there are many ways to end a fight quickly, I am a bit partial towards the break/dislocate something school of thought. Of course jamming your thumb into the attackers eye while grabbing his face works really well too.

Agreed, the few times I have been in fights, I tried to finish it quick. I never fight fair, and usually at the onset of hostilities i ask myself "can I knock this guy down with one move?" If not, then it is time to be nasty, gonads, solar plexis, throat, eyes, ears, anything that could potentially be removed are targets. mind you if I'm fighting, it is a last resort, and I am in fear of my life.

A Marine buddy got jumped by some guys in Myrtle Beach, he had one guy by the neck using him as a shield while the other aggressor was trying to hit my friend with a belt. I worked my way in between them acting like I was trying to calm things down, saw an opening and got the guy with a belt in a blood choke. He was conscious for all of 4 seconds before he went limp, he had enough time to try to hit me with his belt over his shoulder. I took him to the ground, checked him to make sure he was breathing, got up and noticed that my buddy had dispatched his attacker in the same manner. We then walked off the beach as the guys were waking up. From initiation to conclusion, the whole incident lasted maybe 30 to 45 seconds (not including the previous altercation), and neither one of us had a scratch on us.

Neither guy remembered what we had done to them, they just knew that they weren't going to try that again.