"Show me the law..."

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Foul, Jan 19, 2007.

  1. Foul

    Foul New Member

    780
    0
    0
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,393
    395
    83
    :shock:

     

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,393
    395
    83
    As to his claim that there is no law requiring one to pay taxes, though, well, that is just silly.

    http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/ ... tNoLaw.htm

    "There's just no law requiring you to pay federal income taxes."

    The most basic myth of tax protestors is that there is simply no law mandating the payment of income taxes—that the whole system is “voluntary†or “optional.†Frequently one can observe anti-tax types to say something like, “if only someone would show me the laws that say that I have to file a tax return and pay taxes, I’d be happy to do it.†I have a strong suspicion that people who say that are not serious, but I’m going to take them at their word. Here are the laws that (a) impose an income tax on you, (b) require you to file an income tax return, and (c) require you to pay taxes:

    § 1


    The federal tax laws are contained in Title 26 of the United States Code, which is the compilation of laws passed by the Congress (“Title†basically means “Volume†when applied to the U.S. Code as a whole, so Title 26 is what might more casually be called Volume 26). The most important statutory provision with regard to income taxes is section one of the tax code, 26 U.S.C. § 1. This is the section that actually imposes the income tax. It’s very simply written. If you are unmarried, the relevant provision is § 1(c), which states:

    26 U.S.C. § 1
    There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every individual . . . who is not a married individual a tax determined in accordance with the following table:

    followed by a table specifying the tax rates on various income amounts. If you are married, you are covered by the similar provision at § 1(a). There are also a couple of other possible filing statuses covered elsewhere in § 1 (such as “head of householdâ€), but the basic point is that section 1 imposes an income tax.

    § 61 and § 63


    Section 1, it will be observed, imposes the tax on your “taxable income.†How do you know what that is? Section 63 of the Code, 26 U.S.C. § 63, defines “taxable income†to mean “gross income minus the deductions allowed†by chapter 1 of the Code, so now we need to know what “gross income†is. So we turn to section 61 of the Code, 26 U.S.C. § 61, which provides the critical definition:

    26 U.S.C. § 61
    [G]ross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:
    (1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;
    (2) Gross income derived from business;
    (3) Gains derived from dealings in property;
    (4) Interest;
    (5) Rents;
    (6) Royalties;
    (7) Dividends;
    . . .


    There are 15 items in the full list (I’ve only quoted the first seven), but the key part of the definition is that gross income means “all income from whatever source derived.â€

    So, between sections 1, 61, and 63, we see that the tax code passed by Congress imposes a tax on your taxable income, which includes all your income, from whatever source derived, less the deductions allowed by the tax laws. So the tax laws do impose a tax on you.

    Now, how do you know that you have to file a tax return and actually pay the tax?

    § 6012 and § 6151


    Section 6151 of the code, 26 U.S.C. § 6151, says:

    26 U.S.C. § 6151
    [W]hen a return of tax is required under this title or regulations, the person required to make such return shall, without assessment or notice and demand from the Secretary, pay such tax to the internal revenue officer with whom the return is filed, and shall pay such tax at the time and place fixed for filing the return (determined without regard to any extension of time for filing the return).


    So according to this section, if you are required to file a tax return, you are required to pay the tax owed, to pay it at the time you file your return, and to pay it to the internal revenue officer with whom you file the return.

    But who says you’re required to file the return? Turn back to section 6012(a) of the code, 26 U.S.C. § 6012(a), which provides:

    26 U.S.C. § 6012(a)
    Returns with respect to income taxes * * * shall be made by the following:
    (1)(A) Every individual having for the taxable year gross income which equals or exceeds the exemption amount * * *.


    The “exemption amount†is defined in 26 U.S.C. § 151(d) as $2000, adjusted for inflation since 1989. You can see the exact amount for the current tax year in the IRS instructions to form 1040. If you have more income than this amount, section 6012 requires you to file a tax return (except that if you’re married, section 6013 gives you the option of filing a joint return with your spouse).

    So there it is:

    Sections 1, 61, and 63 impose the tax,
    Section 6012 requires you to file a tax return if you have income of more than the exemption amount, and
    Section 6151 requires you to pay the tax at the time and place fixed for the filing of your return.

    § 6072


    And when is your return due? Section 6072 provides the answer: “[R]eturns made on the basis of the calendar year shall be filed on or before the 15th day of April following the close of the calendar year.†This is the statutory basis for the familiar April 15 tax deadline.

    Of course, there’s a lot more to know if you want to achieve a full understanding of the tax system. For example, other statutes besides the ones quoted above create the extensive system of tax “withholding,†whereby you actually pay your taxes on your wages in advance, each time you receive a paycheck, so that on the day your return is due the government usually ends up owing you a refund. If you have substantial amounts of unearned income, there are also other statutes that require you to pay estimated taxes each quarter. And, needless to say, there are innumerable, complex statutes that more specifically define how much income tax you owe. But you only need to look at a few, relatively simple statutes to see that the duty to pay income tax is mandatory. You can look up the above statutes yourself in any law library (just ask the librarian to help you find Title 26 of the United States Code.) These statutes demonstrate that the claim that there is no law reuqiring anyone to file income tax returns or pay income tax is complete nonsense.
     
  4. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,393
    395
    83
    I guess he can come out now? #-o
     
  5. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

    3,563
    3
    38
    Like I said in another post stupid really is a crime :!:
     
  6. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

    1,103
    0
    0
    I was laughing so hard it hurt. :D
     
  7. asbrand

    asbrand Active Member

    1,530
    0
    36
    I hate paying taxes.

    I think it is the gub'mint stealing from the citizanry.

    However...it is, unfortunately, legal for them to do so...

    So, I pay it. Grudgingly... :evil:
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,393
    395
    83
    Yeah, I hate them, too, but don't let your hatred cause you to fall for the scams that are out there. I am reproducing a portion of what I wrote to another, inquiring into a certain scam that has been floating around out there trying to convince people that they need not pay their taxes and providing a link. I will not provide the link because I do not want anybody later claiming I sent them to these people:


    Note at your link the real lack of sources. "Researchers say . . ." Well, who the hell is that? Even if we knew who it was, how do we know they say what is claimed? The site reference newspaper articles but does not reproduce the article or even give a date so that you can read it and decide for yourself.

    Why? :?

    People who do not want to provide the evidence so that you can make up your own mind are usually con artists of one form or another.

    Let me tell you what 861 is. It is in the part of the code dealing with foreign income, taxes paid to foreign powers, and credits allowed for such taxes paid (so that you do not get taxed in France and here). In other words, it has no relevance to what these people are claiming.

    Here is the official IRS ruling on these frauds:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-04-30.pdf

    And here is 861 to read for yourself, along with other pertinent sections:

    http://www.intltaxlaw.com/shared/source/sourceirc.htm

    Have fun . . .

    Notice that if I were a con artist, I would not have provided you all of this source material so that you could study it for yourself.

    This is why I like GS1's web site. People post law, not what some cop told them or what some clerk at the probate court heard from somebody at a probate council meeting[well, they do post that, but it gets straightened out, quickly]. That is why the probate court personnel now hate this site and GCO! Their con is over. It is just a matter of time.

    :D
     
  9. Foul

    Foul New Member

    780
    0
    0
    Those are almost common as the "get cheap Viagra" emails that flood inboxes.

    "In 1895, in the Supreme Court case of Pollock v Farmer's Loan and Trust (157 U.S. 429), the Court disallowed a federal tax on income from real property. The tax was designed to be an indirect tax, which would mean that states need not contribute portions of a whole relative to its census figures. The Court, however, ruled that the tax was a direct tax and subject to apportionment. This was the last in a series of conflicting court decisions dating back to the Civil War. Between 1895 and 1909, when the amendment was passed by Congress, the Court began to back down on its position, as it became clear not only to accountants but to everyone that the solvency of the nation was in jeopardy. In a series of cases, the definition of "direct tax" was modified, bent, twisted, and coaxed to allow more taxation efforts that approached an income tax.

    Finally, with the ratification of the 16th Amendment, any doubt was removed. The text of the Amendment makes it clear that though the categories of direct and indirect taxation still exist, any determination that income tax is a direct tax will be irrelevant, because taxes on incomes, from salary or from real estate, are explicitly to be treated as indirect. The Congress passed the Amendment on July 12, 1909, and it was ratified on February 3, 1913 (1,302 days)."

    I think it's more of HOW they did it that pushes people to believe that there's no real law.
     
  10. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

    6,172
    0
    0
    I feel a certain sympathy for people for fall for these scams for they are the ones who're going to spend years behind bars while those who promote the scams invariably skate cleanly away.

    Another major tax scam is "slavery reparations". People have claimed this on their tax returns, actually received the money from the IRS only to have the IRS realize mistakes were made... Then, the IRS not only wants their (actually, "our") money back, they also want interest and penalities.

    If the reciepiants of the "reparation" money can't pay it all back plus the additional, they can end up losing houses, cars and possibly going to prison. And again, the scammers blithely go about their merry way...

    I see a couple of problems here.......... (Feel free to add your own...)

    1.) No one likes to pay taxes.

    2.) We pay a tremendous amount of "hidden" taxes in addition to income tax.

    3.) Taxes are necessary and we should be glad we have the income necessary to put us in the higher brackets, but still it's no fun!

    4.) Not even the IRS can understand the tax code which is gonna get even more complicated before there's even a chance of it becoming simplified!

    5.) This forum really needs spell check...
     
  11. Foul

    Foul New Member

    780
    0
    0
    Amen, Brother!
     
  12. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

    5,798
    0
    0
    Read the rest of the story HERE.
     
  13. Foul

    Foul New Member

    780
    0
    0
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    As a side note, what this story SHOULD be shining the light on is the Draconian tax structure in this country and the bloated government that spends it so freely.
    Reduce the size of government to it's Constitutionally mandated powers, quit supplying other countrys with weapons and quit proping up other governments, quit sending a dime of our tax dollars over seas for any reason at all. Just because an earthquake happens in mule fart Malaysia doesn't make me responsible in paying for their rebuilding or "humanitarian" efforts.
     
  14. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

    3,563
    3
    38
    This clown doesn't come off as a patriot. He comes off as an IDIOT. He does more harm for the cause than good because he gives the press a moron to point to and imply we are all that stupid.

    Don't get me wrong the founding fathers prohibited an income tax for a reason, but the solution is to change the law not act like it doesn't exist.

    Yes this board need a spellcheck
     
  15. Mike from Philly

    Mike from Philly New Member

    787
    0
    0
    He is a moron. All he had do was say he is here from Mexico illegally. Then he only would need to pay taxes on 2 years out of the past 5. He'd get free health care and not need to have car insurance. He'd also get social security benefits on the income he claims but didn't have to pay FICA on. What a deal. Al courtesy of W and the Republicans. I'm ready to claim I'm an illegal also. I'm thinking I wouldn't need a permit to Mexican Carry.
     
  16. asbrand

    asbrand Active Member

    1,530
    0
    36
    My main complaint about taxes is thus...

    I don't mind having to pay some money to the gub'mint to get things working. That's society. Fine.

    However, I have a BIG problem with them taxing my money multiple times.

    Either tax it before I get paid (income tax) or after when I spend it (sales tax). Not both.

    New money earned should only ever be taxed ONE time. Period.
     
  17. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

    6,172
    0
    0

    You would be absolutely astonished at the amount of total taxes you pay.


    Take a simple carry out hamburger... You pay for it with after tax dollars and pay sales tax when you buy it (in some places). The place where you bought it pays property taxes, employee income taxes, taxes on insurance and utilities, taxes on vehicles plus gasoline taxes, etc., etc.

    The supplier to the restrauant pays taxes on its trucks and fuel, employee taxes, insurance, utilities, property and so on. Same for the packing company and the trucks that deliver cows to market and there's always taxes the poor farmer pays.

    I know I probably missed about half the taxes that hamburger picked up on its way to you, but I'm guessing that three dollar hamburger probably includes two dollars in taxes! Maybe more.

    And, the USA is a relatively low tax country.

    Enjoy your lunch.......


    .
     
  18. BergerBoy

    BergerBoy New Member

    80
    0
    0
    Yep. While I believed the 861 stuff for a while and can see how some people could get sucked in, that does not make it right. This guy is focusing on the point that "the government is making you pay when you don't have to". The point should be "the government has twisted the law to screw us out of our money unfairly".

    I have heard a figure of 60-70% of one's income ends up back in the gov's pocket after all taxes are accounted for. Kinda scarey. Then again, people don't care anymore nor pay attention. They see the income tax take what, 20-40% of their income, and then figure that's it other than the sales tax. They refuse to look any further.
     
  19. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Active Member

    2,420
    2
    38
    Along these lines, I swear I heard a news blurb on the radio this morning about some mom & pop business that were in court for some tax issue. The very short version of it was that they didn't pay as the should have & they are now saying the tax code was too complicated for anyone to understand. They presented everything & the court agreed the code was too complicated & the case was dismissed.

    Now that's a huge summation of the small amount of the story that I heard. And I have nothing to back it up (spent a few minutes googling but no luck).

    I'd love to see some sort of fair tax implemeneted. I have no problem paying them, but not the way we do now...