[UtiPossidetis]

With the BLM proposal that includes elimination of "military equpment" it seems important to know what that term means. Some seem content and believe they know what the term means. Unfortunately, I believe they are naive.

Return with me to those halcyon days of the late 80s. At that point many police departments still issued wheel guns to their officers. Glocks were new, and broadly derided. Many departments were considering changing to new semiauto pistols. S&W was the big player initially, thus buying American was part of the sale. There were significant voices claiming that doing so was militarizing our police.

Jump back to today. What limits the term "military equpment" to things like APCs as has been used as an example? Remember, pistols with more than 6 rounds were at one point considered militarization of the police.

 

[Don27]

Technological advancements. Beneficial to everybody.

 

[GMan45ACP]

With the BLM proposal that includes elimination of "military equpment" it seems important to know what that term means. Some seem content and believe they know what the term means. Unfortunately, I believe they are naive.

Return with me to those halcyon days of the late 80s. At that point many police departments still issued wheel guns to their officers. Glocks were new, and broadly derided. Many departments were considering changing to new semiauto pistols. S&W was the big player initially, thus buying American was part of the sale. There were significant voices claiming that doing so was militarizing our police.

Jump back to today. What limits the term "military equpment" to things like APCs as has been used as an example? Remember, pistols with more than 6 rounds were at one point considered militarization of the police.

I agree! Body armor, semi-auto pistols, AR's all seem to be "military
equipment". Do we go as far as saying helicopters should be removed from the police also? Some seem to forget about the Hollywood bank robbery that had the police outgunned when they arrived on scene, if I remember correctly that is what prompted a lot of the "military equipment" making it to the police forces across the country.

 

[bdee]

I agree! Body armor, semi-auto pistols, AR's all seem to be "military
equipment". Do we go as far as saying helicopters should be removed from the police also? Some seem to forget about the Hollywood bank robbery that had the police outgunned when they arrived on scene, if I remember correctly that is what prompted a lot of the "military equipment" making it to the police forces across the country.

Wouldn't you prefer that the government be at a disadvantage every time?

We know it wasn't Jefferson that said it, but not sure who did, it still rings true.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty, when the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

So yeah, let's give them back .38 specials, and have them walk the beat. Maybe not in rural counties, there let them drive their own pickup trucks.

 

[GMan45ACP]

Wouldn't you prefer that the government be at a disadvantage every time? QUOTE]

Sure, but that is not going to happen, the government won't let me have a machine gun, an operating cannon, a fully functional M1 tank, or an Apache helicopter. And the last time I checked the police don't have any of these either. The police department should be able to at least carry what I can purchase, I'm willing to give them a fighting chance in a stand off.

 

[bdee]

Wouldn't you prefer that the government be at a disadvantage every time? QUOTE]

Sure, but that is not going to happen, the government won't let me have a machine gun, an operating cannon, a fully functional M1 tank, or an Apache helicopter. And the last time I checked the police don't have any of these either. The police department should be able to at least carry what I can purchase, I'm willing to give them a fighting chance in a stand off.

Their advantage in a standoff is numbers and cooperation.

But not every cop needs to have a taser, pepper spray, a baton, a Glock, zip ties, 2-3 pairs of handcuffs, spare mags, and then inside his car an ar15 (m4?), riot gear, and a combat shotgun.

Then other cops have machine guns, Bradley fighting vehicles, and sniper weapons.....

So yeah, I say we take nearly every urban cop out of their cars, hand them a revolver, a radio, handcuffs, and a billy club. If they need more than that, they have a radio. Walking by your house, the cop is a lot more likely to get known, and know the neighborhood, the people that live in it, and what looks out of place. They are more likely to be treated like a fellow human being, and more importantly, treat the people in his neighborhood as people instead of potential suspects.

 

[AzB]

Sure, but that is not going to happen, the government won't let me have a machine gun, an operating cannon, a fully functional M1 tank, or an Apache helicopter. And the last time I checked the police don't have any of these either. The police department should be able to at least carry what I can purchase, I'm willing to give them a fighting chance in a stand off.

Many PDs do indeed have automatic weapons, and while they don't all have tanks, they do have armored vehicles.

Of course, you can own these too. It just takes money and a federal tax stamp.

Az

 

[UtiPossidetis]

Thanks guys for making my point. What constitutes "Military equipment" and which items of that equipment are thought to be appropriate for the police to use and which are inappropriate is not a fixed, and obvious, defined entity but subject to "gasp!" ,interpretation. That is my point here. and in the BLM thread, that some seem to be unable to grasp.

Just to make it clear - for me, personally - APC is a no for police but AR15/M4 is ok; tactical webbing ok for me but bombs on the ends of robots is a no-go for me; both revolvers and semi-auto pistols are ok for me for police to use as well.

The main point is that what "military equipment" is varies according to various definitions and then once you are in that realm where the line is also varies across people.

 

[phaed]

Wouldn't you prefer that the government be at a disadvantage every time?

Sure, but that is not going to happen, the government won't let me have a machine gun, an operating cannon, a fully functional M1 tank, or an Apache helicopter. And the last time I checked the police don't have any of these either. The police department should be able to at least carry what I can purchase, I'm willing to give them a fighting chance in a stand off.

while cops don't typically own apaches, they can call on them. remember, the SOP of police is "always escalate", and they have the national guard blurred into the assets they can call upon. technically they even have some active duty units assigned to homeland defense that they can use.

if they ever were challenged to the point where they'd need them, they would get them. if you doubt it, you don't have an accurate read of their mindset.

 

[OWM]

while cops don't typically own apaches, they can call on them. remember, the SOP of police is "always escalate", and they have the national guard blurred into the assets they can call upon. technically they even have some active duty units assigned to homeland defense that they can use.

if they ever were challenged to the point where they'd need them, they would get them. if you doubt it, you don't have an accurate read of their mindset.

Not a Apache but sort of makes the point.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...attack-recalls-1973-slayings-New-Orleans.html

 

[CoffeeMate]

"...dat's a HoJo, ya' Mofo..."