self-defense | white man | black woman

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by atlsrt44, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. atlsrt44

    atlsrt44 Well-Known Member

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  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Hard to tell from the video, but does not appear on the first viewing to be reasonable self defense. I'd like to know more about what happened.
     
  3. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    She first attacks him from behind by pushing him. He turns and pushes her back about 15 feet. She clinches her fist and charges at him again. He stands his ground and when she gets to him he gives her a left hook and sends her to the ground. He did not make any move in her direction at any time. She was the first aggressor in the physical altercation and before the punch she encountered.
     
  4. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    I read the analysis under the video. Disparity of size may be a factor in an excessive force argument but nothing on the initiation or instigation side is there to use to charge the guy.

    No follow up or retaliatory force or anything beyond stopping the threat and immediately stopping the reply force is there.

    I have to call it a clean KO.

    Nemo
     
  5. Wheedle

    Wheedle Active Member

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    She wanted equal rights, and got an equal left....
     
  6. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    The girl was 11 or 12 years old.
    The man has been arrested and charged with assault on a child under age 12.
    By her size and appearance, he should have known he was dealing with a kid.
    Now, can a grown middle-aged man punch a kid, hard, in the face?
    Maybe.
    It depends what the kid appears (a reasonable prediction, not a wild-ass guess or bare speculation) to be doing or about to do.
    Was this pre-teen girl about to punch him?
    If so, he could probably punch her first, like he did.
    But what if she was just running back to him to get "up in his face" and yell at him and curse him at eyeball-to-eyeball distance?

    ONE MORE THOUGHT:
    The video shows that man pushing or shouldering somebody out of his way as he storms out of that mall into the crowd of black girls.
    Did he maybe shove her FIRST, mostly off-camera?
    If he did that to her first, I think it's understandable that she would shove him, and when he shoves her back, he should know that he's now a participant in a shoving match (he's also the one who started that game, and the girl agreed to keep it going...) THE POINT IS that when you're in the middle of a 3 or more round shoving match, you can't REASONABLY say that you expected to be knifed, or karate chopped in the throat, or kicked in the balls, etc.
    What is his justification for escalating an open-handed shoving match to a clenched-fist bare-knuckles boxing match, of the type that was popular in poor immigrant communities in the slums of big cities circa 1870s- 1910s?
     
  7. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    A REAL NEWS STORY ABOUT THIS INCIDENT:

    https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article224557240.html
    QUOTE: An arrest has been made. Please contact the Asheville Police Department with further questions.”

    Newsweek quoted an Asheville Police spokesperson as saying “a fight involving a group of juveniles broke out at the Asheville Mall...David Steven Bell, 51, pushed a young girl and hit her.”



    Videos of the incident have been posted multiple times on YouTube, including one that has been viewed 104,000 times.

    In one 29-second video, a man is seen surrounded by a group of teens, one of whom appears to shove him from the back. The man begins to argue with one of the youths, and he then pushes her. The teen gets up and rushes at the man and he punches her in the face, knocking her to the ground, the video shows.


    ************************

    A sensationalistic half-news, half-editorial piece from the NY Post, with additional information about his charges (misdemeanors).

    https://nypost.com/2019/01/15/burly-man-arrested-for-punching-11-year-old-girl-in-the-face/


    QUOTE:
    A burly, 250-pound North Carolina man was arrested after video showed him punching an 11-year-old girl in the face, sending her to the ground with a brutal left hook, video shows.

    David Steven Bell, 51, of Black Mountain, attacked the victim after a throng of young girls surrounded him outside the Asheville Mall on Saturday, when the 6-foot-5 man shoved one of them during a heated exchange, video shows.

    The girl raised her hands and ran back toward Bell – who then decked her, sending her to the ground in an instant.
     
  8. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Appeared to me she approached (after shove pushing her well away) with her right arm cocked for a good punch from her to his face. Angle of approach and the way her arm was held surely indicates she was preparing for the difference in height, angle and and all so she could be on target.

    Nemo
     
  9. a_springfield

    a_springfield Well-Known Member

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    I don't care how old she was she came at the man with a fist ready to swing. She was also in a large group, of presumably her friends. How many videos have we seen where a group of hoodlums knock a larger person down and then proceed to stomp, kick, punch, claw, and so on the person on the ground.


    Until more comes out I am saying the totality of the situation the girl was the aggressor
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  10. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    So what evidence do you have that shows anybody in that crowd were acting in common?
    How many people pushed the man? (1)
    How many people were close enough to step forward and hit the man or tackle him after he shoved pink-pants back, but before she reversed her direction and came back? (a dozen).
    If the man was about to be attacked by an angry mob, wouldn't the fight with "the mob" start after a member of the mob leads the attack by landing the first blow on him?
    (But the mob didn't do anything when Pinkpants shoved him, hard. They let her do her thing ALONE.)
    If a man is about to be attacked by an angry mob, woudn't that CERTAINLY happen when he violently shoves the lead aggressor in their group? Isnt' that the signal for "GAME ON" in a gang rumble or brawl?
    Yet, that didn't happen either.
    The people in this group just let Pinkpants get shoved and stood back to watch her deal with it on her own.

    All this is what the man knew and observed to be true BEFORE the left hook was thrown. And how "the mob" behaved after the knockout punch was thrown confirms it wasn't "a mob looking for a fight vs. one man trying to avoid a fight."

    Nope. It confirms what we saw was "one young punk looking for trouble" and a bunch of witnesses.

    The witnesses may have been young blacks, like Pinkpants, but where is the evidence that they were a danger to him, and as willing to lay hands on the man as Pinkpants was?
     
  11. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    Hard to tell how many were actually involved. Enough to surround the guy and taunt him, yelling and delaying his exit. If you carefully watch the video it looks as if more than one had made contact before the shove back. Maybe just a poke or something (can't really tell) causing him to turn suddenly to face a different direction. As far as the punch goes here is a clip clearly showing her on the offensive with both fist raised.
    upload_2019-1-20_10-6-31.png
    I don't think he should be asking if she is old enough to start a fist fight before defending himself. Had she not been put down the others may have joined in. Him putting her on the ground is what broke up the altercation.
     
  12. atlsrt44

    atlsrt44 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately you have to convince a jury of 12 people that couldn't get out of jury duty that. This is after going to jail, having to hire a lawyer, probably losing your job, etc...

    I think I'd rather do my best to avoid the situation.
     
  13. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Why are you such an apologist for an angry little black bitch who's part of a mob of angry little black bitch thugs?

    Watch the very beginning of the video in the OP. There's a white woman with a small child and another young white girl with long hair wearing a white cap. From their demeanor I believe they're Mr. Bell's family. I could be wrong since there's no additional information. I don't know if any of them know any of the black kids but I believe there was some sort of confrontation inside the mall between the little thugs and some member of Bell's family. It spilled outside and Mr. Bell came to the protection of his family. End of story. Everything you've said is pure conjecture - as is my comment. But since Mr. Bell was smart enough not to make any statement before consulting with an attorney, we'll have to wait until his court appearance to hear his side of the story.

    Personally, I congratulate Mr. Bell on decking the little bitch. Don't touch me and I won't touch you.
     
  14. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    And could someone move this to the Off Topic forum?
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Bell has been released from custody. His attorney issued a statement Tuesday night saying that his client suffers from PTSD and felt threatened by “a large pack of youths,” the Asheville Citizen-Times reports. Bell’s attorney, Andy Banzhoff, said Bell was trying to help a woman who was being harassed by the group of girls.

    “His actions were not motivated by any animus towards the persons in that group. Mr. Bell’s belief is that all persons are created equal and that we are all children of God,” Banzhoff said in the statement. The Asheville attorney told the newspaper Bell and his family are praying for healing for “those impacted by this unfortunate incident.”
    https://heavy.com/news/2019/01/david-steven-bell/
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Bell flagged down a police officer, who arrested him.

    He is facing three charges.
    https://www.thisisinsider.com/david-steven-bell-felt-threatened-by-pack-of-youths-lawyer-says-2019-1

    He was initially charged with assaulting a child under the age of 12. After the incident, two 13-year-old girls told authorities that Bell shoved them as well, and he received two additional charges of assault on a female.

    All three charges are misdemeanors. He is due in court to face the charges on February 5.​
     
  17. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Optics are not good. I would not want to be in this guy's shoes.
     
  18. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    "Banzhoff said his client regretted using physical force"
    This does not seem like a good strategy by his attorney. Same link as post #17.
     
  19. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    We know the "who" and "where" but we still haven't heard the full "why" yet. The little thugs' behavior has yet to be explained. Bell's court appearance is February 5.