Georgia Firearm Forums - Georgia Packing banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
68,872 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
VCDL Alert:

***********************************************
9. Member describes incident requiring him to draw his gun
***********************************************

Josh Knight sent me this email:

--

On Feb. 7, 2007 I was at work. It was around 11:30 a.m. and I had to
go to my truck for something. Now where I work is in a shopping
center that contains a Christian school, barber shop, personal
trainer, thrift store, mission, Dollar General, and a restaurant.

While walking to my truck I noticed the owner of the barber shop and
another barber standing outside next to their vehicle. I continued
walking to my truck when another vehicle came into the parking lot
like a mad man.

This made me take notice since he almost hit my truck as he came into
the parking lot.

As I watched him get out of his Ford Expedition I heard the sound of
the slide of a pistol being racked. Without any hesitation I reached
for my sidearm, drew it out of the holster and had it pointed at the
guy that had his pistol pointed at one of the barbers. I yelled for
him to drop his gun,to put it down. He lowered his weapon and started
walking towards me. [!!! - this shows the total unpredictability of
such encounters in the real world. He's now walking towards you with
his gun aimed down, but still in his hand! The shoot/don't shoot
scenario is now leaning strongly towards 'shoot.' - PVC]

I kept yelling for him to drop his weapon and about the same time the
owner of the barber shop came out and got between me and the other
guy, shoved him into his vehicle and made him leave. [How is THAT
for stupid?!? - PVC]

A few minutes later three police cars came screaming into the parking
lot. As I came back out to my truck to load up so I could leave, the
victim [the barber, not the barber shop owner -- PVC] was telling his
side of the story to an officer. All I hear is "If it wasn't for that
man right there pulling out his gun I would have been shot."

A second officer asked if I had a weapon in my truck and I told him
yes. He kept walking to his car and didn't seem to concerned with me.
After loading my truck and freeing up my hands I turned around to yet
another officer and he asked if I had a weapon.

I told him, "Yes." He asked, "Where is it?"

I told him it is holstered on my hip and I told him I am getting out
my information. I handed him my DL, VA CCW, and my NH CCW.

I told him what happened from my side and I told him I didn't have
time to think I just reacted on the sound of the slide being racked.
I told him I don't know if I had made the right decision in getting
involved. He told me that he is in the patrol division and not the
homicide division. So, yes, I made the right decision and saved a guy
from getting shot.

He asked which store I worked in and I pointed it out. He told me to
go back inside since it is so cold outside and he will be back with
me in a minute. A few minutes later he returned handing me back all
my information. Told me thanks and to have a good day.

We left and went on our job. When we got back that afternoon the lead
investigating officer had left me his card because he didn't get a
chance to talk to me. So I called and left him a message that
afternoon. Friday Feb. 9,2007 the officer called me back to hear what
I had to say. He also told me that I did the right thing and that is
the reason for people having a CCW. He also said that what happened
to me is a pretty rare situation.

So the long and short of this story that you are probably going to
have a hard time making heads and tails out of is.......A citizen
with a CCW was there as it went down and saved somebody from getting
shot. The best part is that the VBPD was very understanding, made me
feel good that I did what I had to do that day!

To view the incident report:

http://tinyurl.com/yuvhg9

Josh
Virginia Beach, VA

--

After emailing Josh about clarifications to the above story (I was
wondering why that barber would push a man with a gun into a vehicle
and then somehow make him leave - all without getting shot), I got
the following additional information:

--

My story is hard to explain I guess! So here we go...Andre is the
barber and the victim. The suspect left the barber shop after an
argument and came back with the gun. Mickey is the shop owner who
shoved the suspect back into his vehicle for the 2nd time to get him
to leave. Mickey is the one that stepped between suspect and I,
directly into the line of fire.

The entire thing as I found out later was over this....Andre asking
the suspect, "What part of NY are you from?"

The suspect told him what part he was from and Andre said, "only
punks and ******* come from that part of NY."

The scuffle was on from there and Mickey shoved the suspect out the
door and into his car and told him he would handle it! So the suspect
left and came back to prove a point!

Scary after it had the few minutes to set it! Just goes to show you
that no matter where you are bad things can happen! Now more than
ever I will have my sidearm holstered to my hip!

Josh

--

And for me this story emphasizes that things are not always as they
appear! That's why one has to be extremely careful before helping an
unknown third-party who is being attacked as the person being
attacked might be the perp and not the victim at that point.

In this case, with a man racking the slide (Hollywood style) on a
handgun and pointing it at an unarmed person, it was more cut-and-dry
from Josh's point of view who the bad guy was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I find Josh lucky to be alive. Not too smart to intervene on someone’s behave without knowing who the victim really is. The barber could have been selling drugs and the undercover cops were moving in. He may not be so lucky next time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,798 Posts
taurus9 said:
I find Josh lucky to be alive. Not too smart to intervene on someone’s behave without knowing who the victim really is. The barber could have been selling drugs and the undercover cops were moving in. He may not be so lucky next time.
Then they would probably yell "POLICE"

The guy did the right thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
The other guy is lucky he's still alive.

If he racked the firearm and continued towards me anyway, pistol raised or lowered, I probably would have fired. No completely sane person would continue forward with a firearm pointed at them.

Here's hoping none of us ever are put in that situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
taurus9 said:
I find Josh lucky to be alive. Not too smart to intervene on someone’s behave without knowing who the victim really is. The barber could have been selling drugs and the undercover cops were moving in. He may not be so lucky next time.
I would hope that an undercover cop would be +1 before he stepped out of his vehicle.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
68,872 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
taurus9 said:
The barber could have been selling drugs and the undercover cops were moving in. He may not be so lucky next time.
Maybe they should have some uniform police around if they do not want to be mistaken for criminals.

It is very imprudent for police officers to dress and act like scumbags (i.e., "undercover") and then present a threat of deadly force without some very clear indication to all observers (including the person being arrested) that they are police officers and not just people who dress and act like scumbags and then present a threat of deadly force, oh, while yelling "puh-lease!"

:roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,322 Posts
It is very imprudent for police officers to dress and act like scumbags (i.e., "undercover") and then present a threat of deadly force without some very clear indication to all observers (including the person being arrested) that they are police officers
This brings up an interesting quandry.
What if that's exactly what happens, are you justified in "Standing Your Ground"?

What if a person looking like a scumbag yells "puh-lease!" but shows no identification, or indication that he is actually a LEO. Would you be justified in defending yourself.

My take is you would end up having to defend yourself in court, but that goes back to that phrase "Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6"

I know there have been incidents where people have impersonated LEOs, what's to stop a group of Bad Guys from bursting into your house, yelling "POLICE, WE HAVE A WARRANT!" another reason why no-knock warrants need to go away
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top