Self Defense at the Barber Shop

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Malum Prohibitum, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    VCDL Alert:

    9. Member describes incident requiring him to draw his gun

    Josh Knight sent me this email:


    On Feb. 7, 2007 I was at work. It was around 11:30 a.m. and I had to
    go to my truck for something. Now where I work is in a shopping
    center that contains a Christian school, barber shop, personal
    trainer, thrift store, mission, Dollar General, and a restaurant.

    While walking to my truck I noticed the owner of the barber shop and
    another barber standing outside next to their vehicle. I continued
    walking to my truck when another vehicle came into the parking lot
    like a mad man.

    This made me take notice since he almost hit my truck as he came into
    the parking lot.

    As I watched him get out of his Ford Expedition I heard the sound of
    the slide of a pistol being racked. Without any hesitation I reached
    for my sidearm, drew it out of the holster and had it pointed at the
    guy that had his pistol pointed at one of the barbers. I yelled for
    him to drop his gun,to put it down. He lowered his weapon and started
    walking towards me. [!!! - this shows the total unpredictability of
    such encounters in the real world. He's now walking towards you with
    his gun aimed down, but still in his hand! The shoot/don't shoot
    scenario is now leaning strongly towards 'shoot.' - PVC]

    I kept yelling for him to drop his weapon and about the same time the
    owner of the barber shop came out and got between me and the other
    guy, shoved him into his vehicle and made him leave. [How is THAT
    for stupid?!? - PVC]

    A few minutes later three police cars came screaming into the parking
    lot. As I came back out to my truck to load up so I could leave, the
    victim [the barber, not the barber shop owner -- PVC] was telling his
    side of the story to an officer. All I hear is "If it wasn't for that
    man right there pulling out his gun I would have been shot."

    A second officer asked if I had a weapon in my truck and I told him
    yes. He kept walking to his car and didn't seem to concerned with me.
    After loading my truck and freeing up my hands I turned around to yet
    another officer and he asked if I had a weapon.

    I told him, "Yes." He asked, "Where is it?"

    I told him it is holstered on my hip and I told him I am getting out
    my information. I handed him my DL, VA CCW, and my NH CCW.

    I told him what happened from my side and I told him I didn't have
    time to think I just reacted on the sound of the slide being racked.
    I told him I don't know if I had made the right decision in getting
    involved. He told me that he is in the patrol division and not the
    homicide division. So, yes, I made the right decision and saved a guy
    from getting shot.

    He asked which store I worked in and I pointed it out. He told me to
    go back inside since it is so cold outside and he will be back with
    me in a minute. A few minutes later he returned handing me back all
    my information. Told me thanks and to have a good day.

    We left and went on our job. When we got back that afternoon the lead
    investigating officer had left me his card because he didn't get a
    chance to talk to me. So I called and left him a message that
    afternoon. Friday Feb. 9,2007 the officer called me back to hear what
    I had to say. He also told me that I did the right thing and that is
    the reason for people having a CCW. He also said that what happened
    to me is a pretty rare situation.

    So the long and short of this story that you are probably going to
    have a hard time making heads and tails out of is.......A citizen
    with a CCW was there as it went down and saved somebody from getting
    shot. The best part is that the VBPD was very understanding, made me
    feel good that I did what I had to do that day!

    To view the incident report:

    Virginia Beach, VA


    After emailing Josh about clarifications to the above story (I was
    wondering why that barber would push a man with a gun into a vehicle
    and then somehow make him leave - all without getting shot), I got
    the following additional information:


    My story is hard to explain I guess! So here we go...Andre is the
    barber and the victim. The suspect left the barber shop after an
    argument and came back with the gun. Mickey is the shop owner who
    shoved the suspect back into his vehicle for the 2nd time to get him
    to leave. Mickey is the one that stepped between suspect and I,
    directly into the line of fire.

    The entire thing as I found out later was over this....Andre asking
    the suspect, "What part of NY are you from?"

    The suspect told him what part he was from and Andre said, "only
    punks and faggots come from that part of NY."

    The scuffle was on from there and Mickey shoved the suspect out the
    door and into his car and told him he would handle it! So the suspect
    left and came back to prove a point!

    Scary after it had the few minutes to set it! Just goes to show you
    that no matter where you are bad things can happen! Now more than
    ever I will have my sidearm holstered to my hip!



    And for me this story emphasizes that things are not always as they
    appear! That's why one has to be extremely careful before helping an
    unknown third-party who is being attacked as the person being
    attacked might be the perp and not the victim at that point.

    In this case, with a man racking the slide (Hollywood style) on a
    handgun and pointing it at an unarmed person, it was more cut-and-dry
    from Josh's point of view who the bad guy was.
  2. taurus9

    taurus9 Guest

    I find Josh lucky to be alive. Not too smart to intervene on someone’s behave without knowing who the victim really is. The barber could have been selling drugs and the undercover cops were moving in. He may not be so lucky next time.

  3. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

    Then they would probably yell "POLICE"

    The guy did the right thing.
  4. Foul

    Foul Guest

    The other guy is lucky he's still alive.

    If he racked the firearm and continued towards me anyway, pistol raised or lowered, I probably would have fired. No completely sane person would continue forward with a firearm pointed at them.

    Here's hoping none of us ever are put in that situation.
  5. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

    Big +1
  6. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday New Member

    I would hope that an undercover cop would be +1 before he stepped out of his vehicle.
  7. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Romans 10:13

    Big +2
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe they should have some uniform police around if they do not want to be mistaken for criminals.

    It is very imprudent for police officers to dress and act like scumbags (i.e., "undercover") and then present a threat of deadly force without some very clear indication to all observers (including the person being arrested) that they are police officers and not just people who dress and act like scumbags and then present a threat of deadly force, oh, while yelling "puh-lease!"

  9. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

    This brings up an interesting quandry.
    What if that's exactly what happens, are you justified in "Standing Your Ground"?

    What if a person looking like a scumbag yells "puh-lease!" but shows no identification, or indication that he is actually a LEO. Would you be justified in defending yourself.

    My take is you would end up having to defend yourself in court, but that goes back to that phrase "Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6"

    I know there have been incidents where people have impersonated LEOs, what's to stop a group of Bad Guys from bursting into your house, yelling "POLICE, WE HAVE A WARRANT!" another reason why no-knock warrants need to go away