Second guessing the police shooting of the guys in the Miami, Florida UPS truck

Discussion in 'Firearm Related' started by NTA, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    I know that expressway very well. There's heavy traffic on it all day long and more so during rush hours when this went down. I don't understand why the cops fired when they did, especially when other cars were still moving trying to get out of the way. And using occupied citizens cars for cover? That's just outrageous.
     

  2. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    Good example of almost complete militarization of police in this country. Collateral damage is now excepted, expected and condoned.
     
  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Disgusting. The last video, with the SUV driver ramming the car in front trying to get away, and multiple cops are moving forward with the SUV to continue to use the innocent passengers as cover.

    I'd have been tempted to lean out the window with my pistol and sweep them off the side of my vehicle before I let them use my children as human shields like this.

    I am sad for the innocent vehicle passenger killed while stuck in traffic, and for the kidnapped driver who appears to have been gunned down without mercy.
     
  4. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    But the officers went home safe. Shooting everyone helps ensure that outcome.
     
  5. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    UPS trucks have video. Just let them go and catch them later, or at least follow from a distance until you can get out of that much traffic and set up a perimeter and plan.
     
  6. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Watch for their pursuit policy to be modified. And look for the wrongful death lawsuits. Oh, and an officer or two to be fired.
     
  7. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Did the hostage-taker shoot (wound or kill?) any innocent people BEFORE the cops opened fire on him, when he was trapped and unable to continue fleeing due to heavy traffic on that road?

    If not, I'd say the cops were wrong to initiate the gun battle then. Not with all those innocents around. If they dont have a clear shot on the bad guy, don't take the shot. Wait for a future opportunity.

    Of course if the bad guy shoots his hostage, or shoots at cops or other drivers on the road FIRST, then all bets are off. Take him out ASAP, and YES risk the lives of other citizens as possible collateral damage from stray bullets.

    But the point is that most armed robberies, most carjackings, most kidnappings, do not result in an innocent person being killed if nobody tries to take-on the bad guy. "Most" hostages will be released, and most robbers really want to take the loot and run. So cops,a and armed citizens, have to consider this. Weigh the risk of intervening vs. the risk of not intervening.

    P.S. And the cops' use of OCCUPIED vehicles as cover while doing a running battle with the bad guy is inexcusable. The cops should be doing everything possible to stay AWAY from other motorists, since the cops know that they should expect bullets to by flying their way.
     
  8. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I still say the best way to stop fleeing robbers and hostage takers is with a helicopter and an accurate semi-auto rifle in a major caliber, like .308 or .30-06. Pop in a magazine of AP black-tipped ammo and shoot DOWN thru the hood when the bad guy is in a good spot to end the chase and other units are on the ground ready to deal with him if he bails-out on foot.
    Or, put in a magazine of lightweight expanding tip bullets, have the chopper pilot fly very low, and aim right for the bad guy himself. Splatter his brains all over the headliner of his vehicle by shooting through the glass, or go right through the side door panels and hit him center-mass with a few rounds of .308 soft-point at 2,700 f.p.s.
     
  9. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    Since you can track your UPS deliveries on line and know where your packages are they didn't even need to be that close to the truck. Also since they had a helicopter over head they could have followed from a distance until it was a safer area. Both the trucks GPS tracker and the copter should have been enough to deal with this in a more cautious fashion.
     
  10. GM404

    GM404 Well-Known Member

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    This x1000. It astounds me how the sheeple just *accept* this as normal. Watching "LivePD" on occasion shows how this has spread across the country and if you think it's wrong, then you are a liberal f*tard that doesn't know anything. Oye, oye, oye.
     
  11. Deepocean

    Deepocean Member

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    I imagine UPS has the ability to remotely disable the truck.
     
  12. NTA

    NTA Well-Known Member

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    That's a good imagination !
     
  13. Deepocean

    Deepocean Member

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  14. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Is there an echo in here?
     
  15. Deepocean

    Deepocean Member

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    No, but Alexa and some of her friends stopped by and said hello.
     
  16. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    14 minute video of the pursuit. No sound. Maybe I'm just a dumbass but seems to me I saw multiple opportunities to stop the UPS truck without endangering innocent bystanders. Spike strips. Pit maneuver. Box it in. Ram the damn thing.

     
  17. Deepocean

    Deepocean Member

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    at 1:14 one police car runs up alongside then suddenly veers off.... did he see a weapon, maybe they fired at him??
     
  18. phantoms

    phantoms Senior Mumbler

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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/us/ups-shootout-200-rounds/index.html
     
  19. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Shootouts happen. The police cannot always control when and where they go down. Innocents may get hit by bullets.

    That is not inexcusable.

    What is inexcusable is the police using bystanders as human shields during the shootout.
     
    NTA likes this.