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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've decided that 2011 is the year that I complete a form 1 for SBR registry. I want to add a PDW to my collection. Can't decide on whether to get an AR or AK PDW but that's for another post.

I'm confused by one aspect of the process. How can I have the serial number for the SBR to record on my form 1 if I can't legally possess it until the tax stamp is returned? Obviously that's not a problem for the person slapping a 7" upper on a naked lower, but what about the guy that wants to buy the completed shorty from a dealer?

Also, can some one explain to me the requirement for engraving of the lower and the information that's recorded? Thanks in advance.
 

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moga said:
I've decided that 2011 is the year that I complete a form 1 for SBR registry. I want to add a PDW to my collection. Can't decide on whether to get an AR or AK PDW but that's for another post.

I'm confused by one aspect of the process. How can I have the serial number for the SBR to record on my form 1 if I can't legally possess it until the tax stamp is returned? Obviously that's not a problem for the person slapping a 7" upper on a naked lower, but what about the guy that wants to buy the completed shorty from a dealer?

Also, can some one explain to me the requirement for engraving of the lower and the information that's recorded? Thanks in advance.
If it is a from 1, you decide what serial number you will put on it when you manufacture it. Then you get it engraved when you have the stamp. Now you can legally buy or cut the barrel shorter or swap if you bought a second shorter barrel to replace the longer one that is currently on the lower.

If you are buying an SBR, then you won't be using a form 1 and your dealer will provide the serial number.

Form 1 is for making. Form 4 is for transfer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
OK, thanks for that info. That makes sense.

Another question: if a registrant forgoes the CLEO signoff on the form and creates a revocable trust in his stead, who signs the form? Is there something extra that is sent to WV to prove the items being registered are belong not to a person but a trust?
 

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moga said:
OK, thanks for that info. That makes sense.

Another question: if a registrant forgoes the CLEO signoff on the form and creates a revocable trust in his stead, who signs the form? Is there something extra that is sent to WV to prove the items being registered are belong not to a person but a trust?
There is a trust document that goes with it, but I do not know exactly. It might be a copy of the trust declaration.

Speaking of things on my todo list this year...
 

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45_Fan said:
If it is a from 1, you decide what serial number you will put on it when you manufacture it. Then you get it engraved when you have the stamp.
You have to use the existing serial number if you are using an already existing title I reciever.
 

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moga said:
OK, thanks for that info. That makes sense.

Another question: if a registrant forgoes the CLEO signoff on the form and creates a revocable trust in his stead, who signs the form? Is there something extra that is sent to WV to prove the items being registered are belong not to a person but a trust?
If you can get a CLEO sign-off, just do that. No need to bother with trusts in that case.
 

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Regular purchased AR that you want to turn into a SBR= form 1 with existing serial number. You'll need to engrave your name, city, and state.

Purchasing a SBR directly from a dealer (already in SBR configuration)= form 4 and YOUR name, city, and state are not required to be engraved.

Making an AR SBR from scratch= form 1 with your own serial number and you'll need to engrave your name, city, and state, caliber.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
GAGunOwner said:
Regular purchased AR that you want to turn into a SBR= form 1 with existing serial number. You'll need to engrave your name, city, and state.

Purchasing a SBR directly from a dealer (already in SBR configuration)= form 4 and YOUR name, city, and state are not required to be engraved.

Making an AR SBR from scratch= form 1 with your own serial number and you'll need to engrave your name, city, and state, caliber.
Excellent. Thanks a bunch for the clarification. BTW, what day are you on?
 

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moga said:
GAGunOwner said:
Regular purchased AR that you want to turn into a SBR= form 1 with existing serial number. You'll need to engrave your name, city, and state.

Purchasing a SBR directly from a dealer (already in SBR configuration)= form 4 and YOUR name, city, and state are not required to be engraved.

Making an AR SBR from scratch= form 1 with your own serial number and you'll need to engrave your name, city, and state, caliber.
Excellent. Thanks a bunch for the clarification. BTW, what day are you on?
Thanks. :righton:

I'm on day 51. :cry:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Assuming I put a 10" barrel on an AR lower that I already own, get it engraved etc, and have it registered. Am I forbidden from making changes to it in the future, such as changing rail systems, triggers, butt stock, etc afterward?
 

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moga said:
Assuming I put a 10" barrel on an AR lower that I already own, get it engraved etc, and have it registered. Am I forbidden from making changes to it in the future, such as changing rail systems, triggers, butt stock, etc afterward?
You can make all the changes you want, as long as you can return it to the original configuration listed on your Form 1/4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
:lol: Right. So I pretty much had better have it in its final configuration... when, exactly? When I join the lower and upper? Within thirty days of the approval of stamp? Before I get a surprise inspection from aye tee eff folks? 12-12-12?

Just having fun with the questions, of course, but having to cement an AR in stone takes away half the enjoyment of owning a weapon built on that platform. Not only that, but it substantially increases my costs of getting into a SBR. No more upgrading as I go is kind of a hard pill to swallow.
 

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You can do whatever you want once it is registered. I'd keep the original barrel length upper around but if you had a dozen uppers it's not a big deal. You can change rails, sights, barrels, stocks, etc, etc, etc no problem. I've known plenty of guys to buy or build another upper for a new SBR and use it on the already registered lower while waiting for the paperwork on the new lower.

If you are not going to keep the original barrel length upper, you simply send a letter to ATF NFA branch stating you would like the registry changed to reflect a different barrel/oal length. Nothing more. They'll send a reply in about a year saying ok (but not an approval, just an ok we changed it).

Unless you are committing crimes, you won't get a surprise inspection.. that is just for the dealers.
 

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madcapmagician said:
You can do whatever you want once it is registered. I'd keep the original barrel length upper around but if you had a dozen uppers it's not a big deal. You can change rails, sights, barrels, stocks, etc, etc, etc no problem. I've known plenty of guys to buy or build another upper for a new SBR and use it on the already registered lower while waiting for the paperwork on the new lower.

If you are not going to keep the original barrel length upper, you simply send a letter to ATF NFA branch stating you would like the registry changed to reflect a different barrel/oal length. Nothing more. They'll send a reply in about a year saying ok (but not an approval, just an ok we changed it).

Unless you are committing crimes, you won't get a surprise inspection.. that is just for the dealers.
Listen to this man. :righton:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
OK guys. Back again with more questions.

I intend to assemble the shortened upper to a stripped lower. I need a form 1, right?

When I get the tax stamp is when the lower is engraved. Got it.

My understanding is that people that reside in Fulton can't get CLEO to sign off. Anyone with information to the contrary?

Any advice on the direction to take for creation of a Revok-Trust?
 

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moga said:
OK guys. Back again with more questions.

I intend to assemble the shortened upper to a stripped lower. I need a form 1, right?

When I get the tax stamp is when the lower is engraved. Got it.

My understanding is that people that reside in Fulton can't get CLEO to sign off. Anyone with information to the contrary?

Any advice on the direction to take for creation of a Revok-Trust?
Ask the Sheriff if he'll sign it for you, don't assume he won't do it. If he says no, then go the trust route.
 

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Adam5 said:
moga said:
Any advice on the direction to take for creation of a Revok-Trust?
DKing
+1. My RLT and Schedule A was done through DKing. IIRC, Sheriff Oconee who could sign his own forms went through trust route....

Also, My form 1 lists 7", 10.5", 12.5", and 14.5" with respective OAL all in 5.56. I have two of the four listed. :wink:
 

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moga said:
When I get the tax stamp is when the lower is engraved. Got it.
If you KNOW you can get a sign-off or KNOW that you are going to get a trust I'd go ahead and have it engraved while you are waiting on the tax stamp.

Why send an NFA weapon out if you don't have to (its not an NFA device until approved by BATFE)?

If you have it engraved while you wait, it "kills two birds with one stone" as far as time goes (you'll be ready to rock once the paperwork comes back).

Also, I don't think it would technically be legal to put the gun into NFA configuration until engraved so if you wait until you get the stamp you'll just have to wait longer on the engraving before you can legally "rock-and-roll."

I'd recommend Orion Arms for the engraving. The are reasonable and get it back to you FAST.
 

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Some have even recommended getting your lower engraved BEFORE you fill out the Form 1, the reasoning I've heard is that if the lower is mis-engraved you can just make the appropriate changes to the form before sending it off. FWIW
 
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