Georgia Firearm Forums - Georgia Packing banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,981 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Teen Gunman Kills 5 in Utah Mall
By JENNIFER DOBNER

Associated Press Writer

SALT LAKE CITY — A historic mall's winding hallways became a shooting gallery for an 18-year-old gunman in a trench coat who fired a shotgun randomly at customers, killing five and wounding four before being killed by police, authorities and witnesses said.

The shooter, whose name was not released, also was armed with a handgun and had several rounds of ammunition, Salt Lake City police Detective Robin Snyder said early Tuesday. No motive has yet been determined, she said.

Police gather after a gunman opened fire Monday, Feb. 12, 2007, at Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City. Five people were killed by the man, who was also killed. (AP Photo/Douglas C. Pizac)
For hours after Monday evening's rampage at the Trolley Square shopping mall, police searched stores for scared, shocked shoppers and employees who were hunkered down awaiting a safe escort.

Marie Smith, 23, a Bath & Body Works manager, saw the gunman through the store window. She watched as he raised his gun and fired at a young woman approaching him from behind.

"His expression stayed totally calm. He didn't seem upset, or like he was on a rampage," said Smith, who crawled to safety in an employee restroom to hide with others. She said the gunman looked like "an average Joe."

Killed were two 28-year-old women, a 52-year-old man, a 24-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl, Snyder said. Four people were hospitalized — a man and a woman in critical condition and two men in serious condition, Snyder said.

Matt Lund was visiting his wife, Barbara, manager of the Secret Garden children's clothing store, when he heard the first shots. The couple and three others hid in a storage room for about 40 minutes, isolated but still able to hear the violence.

"We heard them say, 'Police! Drop your weapon!' Then we heard shotgun fire. Then there was a barrage of gunfire," said Lund, 44. "It was hard to believe."

They say officers treated everyone like suspects — ordering those hiding in storerooms, bathrooms or under stairwells, to lie on the floor with their hands on their heads until police were sure no one posed a threat.

On the way out, Lund said, he saw a woman's body face-down at the entrance to Pottery Barn Kids and a man's body on the floor in the mall's east-west corridor. "There were a lot of blown-out store windows and shotgun shell casings all over the floor," Lund said. "It was quite surreal."

The victims were found throughout the 239,000-square-foot shopping mall.

Outside, streets were blocked as police swarmed the four-block scene. Dozens of people lingered on the sidewalk, many wrapped in blankets, as they talked about what they had seen inside.

The two-story mall, southeast of downtown, is a refurbished trolley barn built in 1908, with a series of winding hallways, brick floors, wrought-iron balconies and about 80 stores, including high-end retailers such as Williams-Sonoma and restaurants such as the Hard Rock Cafe.

Antique store owner Barrett Dodds, 29, said he saw a man in a trench coat exchanging gunfire with a police officer outside a card store. The gunman, he said, was backed into a children's clothing store.

"I saw the shooter go down," said Dodds, who watched from the second floor.

Four police officers — one an off-duty officer from Ogden and three Salt Lake City officers — were involved in the shootout with the gunman, Snyder said. She provided no other details.

Barb McKeown, 60, of Washington, D.C., was in another antique shop when two frantic women ran in and reported gunshots.

"Then we heard shot after shot after shot — loud, loud, loud," said McKeown, saying she heard about 20. She and three other people hid under a staircase until it was safe to leave.

___

Associated Press writer Doug Alden in Salt Lake City contributed to this report.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,861 Posts
Too bad there weren't any permit holders carrying, it might not have been so bad. I thought Utah has some pretty liberal laws for gun carry.

Of course all the anti's will view it as ALL guns are evil, unless the police or military carry them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,322 Posts
There might have been some present, but unable or unwilling to take a shot. I think I recall a recent mall shooting (don't have any sources yet) where a CCW'd man couldn't take a shot because of innocents in the line of fire. Remember line of fire extends beyond the target. I think cone of fire is a better term.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,798 Posts
:? Makes me want to start dropping an extra mag in my pocket when I'll be in an area with a lot of people.

I think I'd be torn though if I were with my brothers or other family members.

Obviously, I have a responsibility to them and to make sure they stay safe. But, I would also feel bad if I were not able to at least intervene in some way (preferably by way of 147grain objects).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
754 Posts
funny how no one is saying how he was a Bosnian Muslim refugee....and how they are pronouncing his name Solomon like in the bible and not his Islamic sound pronunciation.........they seem to be keeping that hush hush in the media

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660195221,00.html
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
68,872 Posts
From the CIA Factbook: Bosniak has replaced Muslim as an ethnic term in part to avoid confusion with the religious term Muslim - an adherent of Islam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
787 Posts
BTW - the off-duty LEO's wife has a concealed carry license and was at the mall while this was going on. No word if she was packing.

Contrary to the Georgia Sheriffs Association, some Law Enforcement Officers think highly enough of concealed carry to make their wives get a license.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,861 Posts
Malum Prohibitum said:
From the CIA Factbook: Bosniak has replaced Muslim as an ethnic term in part to avoid confusion with the religious term Muslim - an adherent of Islam.
Yeah, I don't want to derail the discussion, but doesn't Bosnian refer to being from Bosnia? I understand the reference Bosniak being the ethnic term...I just wonder if the news writer meant Bosnian in that sense (i.e. the man was Muslim from Bosnia) or if they meant he was from that region?

Okay...let's get this thread back on track now.

For the sake of argument, let's say he is Muslim. Is that an oversight in reporting? Maybe, but the news will come out eventually if that plays a part. Is the implication being made as a suicide attack? I've actually wondered why it has taken so long for someone to do just that. Could this be the first?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
754 Posts
pro2am said:
I don't see where it says he was Muslim, or the pronunciation of his name as Solomon. Is there another article where you got that?
It has been pronocned "solomon" on the radio....you can tell he is muslim by his first and last name (google his name seperatly and you will see it is an islamic name there are acutally famousn Ilamic people with his first name).....it was also discussed on Michael Savage this evening.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
Rush was going on about him being muslim also, sorry no link. Apparently they still have no known motive. Parents are shocked. Co-workers don't know why. There was some comment from a "close friend" that his childhood in a war torn country may have had something to do with it??

Just lunchtime Rush on the radio. Very tough for me to reach online news sources via work. :cry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
754 Posts
pro2am said:
Funny that I was going to comment in my original post that Boortz will probably pick up on the guy being Muslim...and so he has... http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html
i usually get to listen to boortz but in the mornings but this week i haven't been able to i figured he would have it on as well.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,974 Posts
Bosnia 101

The nation of Bosnia has three groups:

The Bosnian-Serbs, who are Orthodox Christians.
Bosnian-Croats, who are Roman Catholic.
Bosnian-Muslims, who are Sunni Muslim.

The new PC name for Bosnian-Muslim is "Bosniak."

These three groups are pretty much the same ethnic group, but with religious and some cultural differences. They are all white Europeans, even the Muslims.

They all speak the same language, Serbo-Croatian. The "Bosniaks" and Bosnian-Croats use the Roman Alphabet (English Alphabet) and the Bosnian-Serbs use the Cyrillic Alphabet (Russian Alphabet) but when spoken it is the same language.

Bosnian-Croats and Bosnian-Serbs are almost always refered to in this way, using this dual word format.

So you can be pretty safe to assume that if you hear the term "Bosnian", Bosniak", or "Bosnian-Muslim" you know that the person they are refering to is Muslim.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,798 Posts
Tinkerhell said:
Just lunchtime Rush on the radio. Very tough for me to reach online news sources via work. :cry:
Is that so because you don't have the time, or because the IT department has gone a little extreme?

If it's the latter...I can help. 8)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,322 Posts
Well one news outlet is carrying it now
"Utah mall gunman was Srebrenica survivor, cousin says"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/14/utah.m ... index.html
And here's the story about the Cop
Cop who saved shoppers from shooter: I am not a hero
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/13/office ... index.html
"I was in a situation that I was carrying my gun, and I felt that I had to do something. I couldn't let any more take place."
"I felt that, whether I'm in my own city or not, if I have the ability to protect more people or prevent loss of lives, I have an obligation," Officer Ken Hammond told reporters.
My sentiment exactly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,322 Posts
Here is some video of the mall shooting
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
754 Posts
no say this was here in GA and you were at the mall and this happend and you saw this going and you pulled out your gun and killed him......say that he never pointed it at you but you shot him from the side or even the back.....would you have to give him the opertunity to put his weapon down? what do you think would happen to the person that kills him?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,322 Posts
I would not give him any opportunities. If I had to, I would shoot him in the back of the head, less chance of taking a slug, better chance of not wounding him. If he's dead, he can't hurt anyone else.
I'll take my chances with 12 jurors.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top