road rage shooting between retired LEO & CCW permit hold

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Macktee, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

    The Brady Bunch was right. CC really has led to shootings in the intersections...

    What's really sad is this was over who had right of way at a four-way stop. One guy apparently flashed his legal weapon at a retired cop, who shot his ass. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Like it really made all that much difference who went first... STUPID!!!

    from the Louisville Courier-Journal:

    Tuesday, June 5, 2007

    Reason for driver shooting unclear

    Former officer says it was self-defense

    By Jessie Halladay and James Wagner
    The Courier-Journal

    One was a retired 20-year Jeffersontown police officer, the other a small-business owner who installs equipment for the elderly.

    Both men were legally carrying semi-automatic handguns when their argument at a four-way stop erupted in gunfire Sunday afternoon outside a Kroger in Jeffersontown.

    Now, 33-year-old Darren Pickerill, a Shawnee High School graduate, lies in critical condition in University Hospital's intensive care unit, with bullet wounds to his left arm, chest and head.

    And 50-year-old Richard Koenig, the former officer who says he shot Pickerill in self-defense, is being investigated by the department he served for two decades. No charges have been filed.

    "We're trying to give it due diligence," said Jeffersontown Police Chief Rick Sanders. "We've talked to a number of witnesses that were in the parking lot."

    Sanders said he expects to meet with Commonwealth's Attorney Dave Stengel this week. Stengel's office would decide whether to take the case before a grand jury.

    The shooting took place about 3:30 p.m. Sunday in the Kroger parking lot in the Stony Brook shopping center at Taylorsville Road and Hurstbourne Parkway.

    The preliminary investigation indicates that Pickerill pulled up to a stop sign in a black Hummer H3; Koenig rolled up to the same intersection in a tan Jeep, Sanders said.

    The men got into a brief argument, which Sanders said apparently centered around who had the right of way. Sanders said it appears that Pickerill pulled into the intersection in front of Koenig as he attempted to turn left and that is when the exchange occurred and the shooting took place.

    Neither man had left his vehicle when Koenig fired six to eight times at Pickerill, with several rounds passing through Pickerill's Hummer and striking a nearby National City Bank branch, Sanders said.

    "Officer Koenig stated that he saw a weapon and fired in self-defense," Sanders said.

    Sanders said the whole incident took about a minute. Arriving emergency workers found Pickerill still in his car. Sanders did not comment on whether Pickerill's gun had been fired.

    Roxann Marling, Pickerill's sister, said in an interview yesterday that she'd like to know what happened to prompt such violence.

    "There's a lot of unanswered questions and we hope we can get honest answers for them," she said. "It's not worth being in this kind of shape over road rage."

    She said her brother is not talking but is clearly in a lot of pain.

    A Jefferson County court search turned up no criminal activity or traffic violations for either Pickerill or Koenig.

    Koenig joined the Jeffersontown Police Department in 1986 after serving initially as an officer in Houston, Texas. Police did not release personnel records from Koenig's time on the department.

    He could not be reached for comment yesterday.

    Yesterday, shoppers near the Kroger said they were surprised the shooting took place in that area, which they consider safe. But most said it would not impact whether or not they would return there.

    "It looks like two oddballs ran into each other," said Larry Curtis, who said he has lived in Jeffersontown for nine years.

    Sanders said there were several people in the parking lot at the time of the shooting, and he appealed to any witnesses to report what they saw.

    He said he was concerned about the danger to others in the area during the shooting, as rounds passed through the Hummer, eventually striking the nearby bank.

    "Any time you have gunfire in a public place you have fear of danger," Sanders said.

    Police have begun looking at surveillance tapes from businesses in the area, but Sanders said he didn't know if any of them captured the incident.
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member


    The newspaper could not find a single witness to interview for itself?

  3. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

    an update on the incident; details and information are still lacking, but it sounds like the ex-cop was a ticking time bomb that finally exploded: ... /706061203

    Wednesday, June 6, 2007

    File lists shooter's discipline problems
    J'town force opens ex-officer's records

    By Jessie Halladay and Sara Cunningham
    The Courier-Journal

    A retired Jeffersontown police officer who shot a man Sunday after an argument at a four-way stop had a history of disciplinary problems with the department and was facing a citizen complaint when he retired in February.

    During his 20 years on the Jeffersontown force, Richard Koenig served at least three suspensions, had four chargeable traffic accidents, twice lost his take-home vehicle and received more than a dozen warnings in his file for violating department policies, according to his disciplinary file, which was released yesterday.

    His file also contained about 20 letters of commendation for actions he took.

    Koenig's work history with the department was released yesterday as Jeffersontown Police continue to investigate Sunday's shooting at the Kroger parking lot in the Stony Brook shopping center that left 33-year-old Darren Pickerill in critical condition.

    Pickerill's sister, Roxann Marling, said yesterday that her brother cannot speak, open his eyes or move all of his limbs.

    "We are confused as to what happened, and why a turn at a stop sign is worth shooting someone seven times," Marling said.

    Sanders said no charges have been filed, but he continues to provide daily updates to the commonwealth's attorney's office. He said it likely will take several weeks for police to issue a final report so prosecutors can decide what, if anything, to present to a grand jury.

    The shooting happened in the parking lot near Taylorsville Road and Hurstbourne Parkway about 3:30 p.m. Sunday when Koenig and Pickerill came to a four-way stop about the same time.

    Pickerill turned into the intersection, with the driver's side of both vehicles adjacent to each other when an argument began over who had the right of way, and shots were fired, Sanders said.

    Both men had concealed weapon permits and were carrying .40-caliber semiautomatic handguns in their vehicles. Sanders did not say whether Pickerill fired his weapon.

    Neither man got out of his vehicle during the incident, according to police.

    When Koenig retired from the Jeffersontown Police in February, he was facing a March hearing with the civil service board to address a complaint from a woman who said he ran a stop sign in front of the Stonybrook Cinema de Lux and nearly hit her daughter.

    The complaint accused Koenig of using his air horn and revving his engine before going through the stop sign. According to the complaint, other people in the area commented on Koenig's careless driving.

    No finding was ever made on that complaint because Koenig retired and the hearing was canceled.

    Several other complaints concerning Koenig's behavior were lodged with the department during his 20-year career. Although some were found to have insufficient evidence, others resulted in disciplinary actions.

    In July 2004, then-Chief Fred Roemele sent Koenig a letter detailing four substantiated complaints about Koenig's driving and behavior. Several complaints involved improper use of emergency lights. Koenig received counseling to correct his behavior, and a written warning was placed in his file.

    In 1999, several memos were placed in Koenig's file requiring him to receive remedial training, particularly in how to use proper communication in dealing with the public.

    In one November 1999 memo, his commanding officer at the time, Sgt. Greg Graham, wrote that: "Each commanding officer that Officer Koenig has worked for has also handled numerous telephone complaints reference his attitude and treatment of the public."

    Graham then listed a series of disciplinary actions taken against Koenig during his tenure, including disobeying orders and insubordination, failing to report to work, untruthfulness, improper evidence seizure, interfering with department investigations, failing to make an assigned run, and unbecoming conduct by an officer for mistreatment of the public.

    In September 1997, Graham sent a letter to Roemele that documented the difficulty he was having with Koenig. It was written in response to an incident at a Dairy Mart in which Koenig failed to take a complete theft report. Koenig eventually received a four-day suspension.

    In that 1997 letter, Graham wrote: "Oral warnings, performance evaluations, written warning notices and direct discipline from yourself (Roemele) has not affected Officer Koenig in any way. Officer Koenig is out of control and needs to (sic) stopped soon before someone gets hurt or killed."

    Pickerill's family, speaking during a news conference at the office of community activist Christopher 2X, said his condition remains uncertain.

    Doctors have not been able to determine how many times he was shot or remove any of the bullets because they are trying to keep him stable, Marling said.

    "He's so swollen," she said. "He can squeeze our hands on his right side."

    If Pickerill survives, he may face many surgeries and might never walk or talk again, Marling said.

    She said the family just wants to know what happened.

    "It's easy to say it was self-defense, but did it require him to unload into my brother?" Marling said.

    "He wasn't a trouble-maker, but he also wasn't the type of person to back down if he thought he was right," Jessie Pickerill said. "I just don't know. There are too many unanswered questions."
  4. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    Uh. Huh.

    HE could carry into courthouses. YOU cannot.
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    Untruthfulness and interfering with department investigations are two biggies in his history. He has proven himself untrustworthy, which is significant if this whole thing comes down to what he says about what happened.
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

  7. kkennett

    kkennett New Member

    Sounds like there is more to be heard on this story. It seems rather unlikely for a person, permit holder or not, with absolutely no prior record, to begin shooting at someone over a stop sign. Me thinks there is another side to this pancake.
  8. Sharky

    Sharky Active Member

    And of course because the media reported one point of view originally, I would think the public heard it that way. Now that more evidence is being reported I wonder how many citizens will now look at the person that had a permit differently. Now it seems the retired cop had some issues already and the situation may be reversed and he pulled his weapon.

    Love the press and the people that believe them on initial reports!
  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

  10. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

    And yet another update... The family met with the chief and came away "reassured" about the objectivity of the investigation. J-town PD has asked Louisville Metro PD and KSP crime labs to assist.

    Shooting victim's family meets with J'town Police Chief

    June 6, 2007 08:11 PM

    By Janelle MacDonald

    LOUISVILLE (WAVE) -- Wednesday was an eventful day in the investigation of a weekend shooting involving a retired Jeffersontown police officer, with shooting victim's family meeting with J'town Police Chief Rick Sanders. WAVE 3 Investigator Janelle Macdonald has the latest developments.

    On Tuesday we got the personnel file of Rick Koenig, who retired from the J'town Police Department in February of this year. It contained numerous citizen complaints.

    From Koenig's file to exactly what happened on sunday, everyone, it seems, still has questions. One some of those questions were answered.

    The family of Darren Pickerill, the part-time security guard who was shot multiple times during a confrontation with Koenig at a 4-way stop sign in the parking lot of an east end Kroger, had a list of questions for Chief Sanders.

    Pickerill's brother-in-law, Fred Marling Junior told us "this isn't a witch hunt about this department." He added: "We'd like honest answers."

    After a 45-minute meeting with Chief Sanders, Pickerill's family seemed reassured by what they heard.

    "Based on the chief's response today, we are comfortable with the way he is conducting the investigation," Marling said after the meeting.

    Perhaps at the top of the list of the family's questions: Is former Cpl. Koenig getting special treatment because he used to be a cop?

    Marling said the meeting gave "us a better sense that the investigation is being conducted with 100 percent objectivity."

    Chief Sanders said "I would say the only different treatment is that Mr. Koenig has had to turn over anything and everything he's done wrong in the last 20 years."

    Sanders was talking about Koenig's personnel file, which indicated Koenig had numerous citizen complaints for rude behavior after traffic stops and aggressive driving. It led his own supervisor 10 years ago to call the officer "out of control," and to say he "needs to be stopped before someone gets hurt or killed."

    Sanders says he can't comment on the contents of the file.

    "I'm not going to respond to that," Sanders said. "As I told the family, what I wouldn't do today is offer opinion."

    Pickerill's family says they won't, either. Marling says "although that was released yesterday, at this time, the family doesn't want to comment on anything in regards to his record."

    Disciplinary actions taken against Koenig were signed off on by Fred Roemele, who was J'town's police chief before Sanders took over in January.

    We visited the home listed in county records as Roemele's, but no one answered the door.

    Chief Sanders asked Koenig's former co-workers to remain silent, and not to publicly jump to his defense.

    "I'm sure there would be a number of officers who would come forward and say that, but I, exercising due caution, have asked the officers not to speak about the case or anything about it," Sanders said.

    He says Wednesday's meeting was to show the family that the investigation will be conducted fairly and, "right now, there is no good side or bad side. It's just an investigation. We're trying to determine what happened."

    Marling had a request for the community. "We'd like prayer to get Darren well, to get him back to be the individual that he was. That being said, we'd also like to ask the community to do the same for Mr. Koenig's family."

    Chief Sanders says Koenig's personnel file will be turned over to the Commonwealth's Attorney's office, along with the results of the investigation.

    He says that the department's willingness to turn over internal files so early in the investigation demonstrates the openness with which the department is conducting the investigation.

    What won't be a part of what gets turned over: Sanders says he will offer no opinion or recommendations.

    Chief Sanders also says it is not unusual for Koenig not to be arrested, saying it is typical in cases of self defense. He says if it turns out Pickerill pulled his weapon first, there could be charges for that.

    The chief todl us he is bringing in two outside experts for help on this case, as well as crime technicians from the LMPD and the Kentucky State Police Crime Lab.

    The chief also said two new witnesses came forward Wednesday to be interviewed about the shooting, and that they gave new information to investigators.

    Sanders is asking anyone else who may have seen the shooting to call J'town police at 267-0503.
  11. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Active Member

    As soon as I read the part where the x-leo shot 6 times and no mention of the other guy shooting at all... Something is wrong with that.
  12. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

    I'm the only one profes........ know where I'm going with this.
  13. Macktee

    Macktee New Member


    No, no, no, no! Sorry. Wrong quote.

    He shot the other guy, :shoot: not himself...! He may be a little out of control, but he's a fairly decent shot. One to the temple!
  14. Purge

    Purge Member

    Maybe the x-LEO was just disarming the civilian for his own safety and didn’t have a taser to tease him with.
  15. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

    And here's another road rage only this one involved an active duty LEO, who was on the losing end of the situation...:

    clock Jun 8, 2007 3:39 pm US/Central

    Man Suspected Of Shooting Officer Released

    (AP) Anoka, Minn. Anoka County authorities have released without charges a man suspected of shooting and wounding an undercover Robbinsdale police officer.

    Martin Treptow,35, says he fired to protect his wife and two toddlers inside the family SUV.

    The Anoka County attorney's office says Treptow was released after Thursday's incident in Coon Rapids, but the investigation was ongoing.

    Coon Rapids police say Treptow and a 27-year old officer in an unmarked car got into a dispute on the road. After angry words and gestures, Treptow pulled his SUV up to the driver side of the other car, stopped at a light. Treptow says as the driver got out of his, he pulled out a weapon.

    "We're about three feet away from each other and he's pointing the gun at my wife, so it was a tough situation, where I couldn't drive away at that particular moment, I had to defend my family," Treptow said.

    Treptow says the man was in street clothes and never identified himself as a police officer. With his wife in the passenger seat, Treptow fired three shots at the officer, hitting him in both legs and grazing his arm.

    The 27-year-old officer was treated and released at a Minneapolis hospital for wounds to his legs and arm.

    The man's two children were also in the vehicle at the time. He had a permit to carry a weapon
  16. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

    One more will complete the trifecta.....
  17. Sine Nomen

    Sine Nomen New Member

    It looks like he was aiming for a headshot. (And it sounds like he got it.) I'm not really buying the "self-defense" line. If you're still in your car, how much longer does it take to draw, aim, and fire than it does to duck and drive?
  18. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

    Please forgive me for getting into this one late, but I have a few observations to share.

    First, the paramount issue here is whether or not the shooting was legally justified. If it was, everything else pertaining to the shooting is irrelevant.

    Second, if this guy is no longer an officer and was not acting in any official capacity, why is his personnel file being made part of the record? The other guy's life story is not being brought into the public eye.

    Third, why is so much being made as to whether or not the Hummer driver actually fired his weapon? Nothing says that you have to let the other guy actually take shots you. Who here would wait and allow shots to actually be fired at them if in a confrontation and the other party produced a weapon? The issue of the Hummer driver's weapon is whether he introduced his weapon first or if he drew it in response to the shooter producing his weapon, which goes back to the paramount issue as to whether or not the shooting was justified.

    Fourth, completely setting this incident aside, how did this guy manage to keep his badge for twenty years, especially after obstructing an internal investigation?
  19. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

    Past history establishes a pattern of poor decision making skills and bad behavior.
  20. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

    I understand that to a certain degree, but the paramount issue is justification. If he was legally justified none of the rest of that matters.