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I am told CNBC is running a story about the "unsafe Remington 700".suposedly it will fire w/o pulling the trigger. :screwy: any input would be appreciated
 

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http://www.cnbc.com/id/39418714?par=ft

This CNBC Original documentary examines allegations that the Remington Model 700- series hunting rifle is prone to firing without pulling the trigger, and that its manufacturer, Remington, has been aware of this concern for almost 60 years. Dozens of deaths, scores of injuries, and more than a thousand customer complaints have been linked to the alleged problem. The story is told through former corporate insiders and the company’s own internal documents.
Edit:
Nearly four of every ten bolt-action rifles sold is a Remington
Edit 2: Guess I should put the time.
Premiere on CNBC on Wednesday, October 20th at 9PM ET/PT
Edit 3: Redstate

Edit 4: Link
That trigger mechanism, known as the “Walker Fire Control,†uses an internal component called a “connector.†The lawsuit alleges that Remington has known about the problems with the Walker Fire Control for decades. In a company memo from 1979, Remington even admits to its own defect and recognizes the danger to its customers.
 

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I have just acquired a 700 and from my reading over at snipershide this type of AD is more common than it should be. It seems most of the time the AD occurs when the safety is disengaged. If that is the case the rifle should have already been pointed in a safe direction. If people are getting injured or killed by this phenomenon it's mostly because they are acting in an unsafe manner.

Just some threads I was reading, this morning actually.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2101346

http://weww.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1973336
 

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On now. CNBC
 

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Watching now. Looks like CNBC has done some good homework on this.

Botom line is a weapon should not fire unless the trigger is pulled. CNBC has videos of the 700 firing without the trigger being pulled. Also, they have multiple letters from the designer stating that the safety and tigger mechanisms have faults and are dangerous. Letters he wrote to his superiors while working for Remington and even after he retired.

In court, Remington expert held a 700 and operated it to show that the gun wouldn't fire without trigger pull....it did and the judge stood up and said let the record show that the gun fired....Remington lost the suit.

I have seen this happen following a hunting trip when I was 15. Luckily, the gentlemen holding the gun had it pointing in a true safe direction...but bottom line is that the gun shouldn't fire without the trigger being pulled.

I own a remington tactical shotgun and have always been a little nervous based on seeing the 700 fire without the trigger being pulled.
 

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Somewhere I read that the controversy of the Rem 700 is the trigger group. What seems to be happening is that if the gun has the safety on and you pull the trigger the gun will not fire but the sear would move a little. Then the problem comes when you take the safety off and that lets go of the sear and the gun fires w/o you pulling the trigger.

Well I tried that with mine, and it did not work. :lol:
 

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Are some Remingtons more prone to this than others? What's the procedure for determining if your rifle is capable of experiences this type of AD?
 

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During the program they said the 700 series rifles and specifically mentioned a 770 as being affected as well.
 

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I saw it on the news last night too, I cannot see why remington would let this go on, somebody needs to be fired. :evil:
 

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{TEX}Hawaii(( said:
[quote="Hack Causality":1y04ozo5]Are some Remingtons more prone to this than others? What's the procedure for determining if your rifle is capable of experiences this type of AD?
I think it's just the Remington 700..older design. Read this stroy for more info...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39759366[/quote:1y04ozo5]
No, all 700s. The military sniper rifles were showing this malfunction in military testing videos. It works out to about 1% of the guns (meaning 99% will not do it). The major problem with the older style was that one could not unload with the safety on. A person with a malfunctioning gun would flip off the safety to unload it and BLAM! They did modify the rifle's design so that modern rifles will unload with the safety on. This still leaves the problem with a small percentage of the rifles (about 1%- which is estimated to be about 50,000 rifles out in the market) that will sometimes fire when turning off the safety. I have never seen or experienced this firsthand.

The cost to fix all of these rifles would be about $22 million.

I have no idea whether it would affect the feel of the famous Remington trigger.
 

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I wonder what percentage of the AD's were cause by people "adjusting" the triggers? My guess is quite a few.
 

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One thing that was pointed out is that Remington makes some 700s with a trigger called X-Mark Pro this trigger is supposedly the one the gun's designer Mike Walker designed to fix his orginial design.
 

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I hunt with a lot of buddies that use 700s. This gives me pause...................and I will surely have a conversation with them about this new information. I've been hunting for nearly 25 years, and have never heard of this potential problem with the Remington 700s.
 

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I have a 770 and it has never had an accidental discharge. However, if you don't keep it clean the trigger will stick so that it won't fire at all!
 

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tmoore912 said:
I hunt with a lot of buddies that use 700s. This gives me pause...................and I will surely have a conversation with them about this new information. I've been hunting for nearly 25 years, and have never heard of this potential problem with the Remington 700s.
I have been conversing through email this morning with some of my hunting buddies about the trigger problem. Here is an email I just received:

I am so glad someone has exposed a problem that made me wonder if I was crazy or not. When I shot my first mountable deer back in November of 2007 my rifle did this crap and no one has been able to explain why... They all made me feel like it was poor gun handling on my part which I knew it was not. After shooting the deer, the first thing I did was eject the spent round and chamber a new round. As soon as I closed the bolt and pushed the handle down , the gun went off. Scared the :censored: out of me. Fortunately I was practicing safe gun handling and the bullet went into the ground. I have talked to numerous people about this and have tried unsuccessfully to re-create what happened at the range. I was beginning to think that somehow I had my finger on the trigger or something and it was my fault.. It was the only logical answer I could come up with.

About 3 weeks ago I went to Academy sports and Remington had a big fancy truck set up outside with all of their guns on display.. I went to the info table and described to the guy giving out info what had happened to me. He said I needed to call the factory and gave me their number. I asked if he had heard of this problem before and he would not tell me yes or no but only had this strange look on his face and repeated that I needed to call the company.. I got the feeling he had heard of this issue before... I called Remington and described what happened to one of their tech guys and he told me if I wanted to send it in they would take a look at it. I asked him if they were aware of an issue with that particular model and he responded that he had never heard of that happening.

Seeing this report really pisses me off and what pisses me off the most is their flat out denial of a problem.. And their knowledge of the problem and having a solution but doing nothing about it. Their behavior is reckless at best.

I am glad to have some evidence that maybe I am not crazy and maybe what I thought happened really happened.. The way it is described in this report is EXACTLY the way it happened to me....

Please feel free to share this with whomever you like..

and thanks for the heads up
 

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mountainpass said:
One thing that was pointed out is that Remington makes some 700s with a trigger called X-Mark Pro this trigger is supposedly the one the gun's designer Mike Walker designed to fix his orginial design.
Can this be installed in older rifles?
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
mountainpass said:
One thing that was pointed out is that Remington makes some 700s with a trigger called X-Mark Pro this trigger is supposedly the one the gun's designer Mike Walker designed to fix his orginial design.
Can this be installed in older rifles?
I'm not sure, but other aftermarket manufactors trigger groups can be used to replace the Remington trigger group. Some names include Timney Triggers, Rifle Basix and Jewell.

I have a Timney trigger in my Ruger M77 .270 and it is very crisp.
 

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MP said:
Can this be installed in older rifles?
In the piece the designer Mike Walker came up with this trigger fix design in 1947? At the time it would of added 5.5 cents per gun built. After a trial where Remington had to pay millions(1990's?), it was estimated internally at Remington that a recall would cost the aforementioned $22 mil. I took it the new trigger would fit the old gun.

What I don't understand is why Remington would even continue to make a gun without the new safer trigger. :screwy:
 

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mountainpass said:
One thing that was pointed out is that Remington makes some 700s with a trigger called X-Mark Pro this trigger is supposedly the one the gun's designer Mike Walker designed to fix his originial design.
I just got back from a day of shooting at the Chestnut Mountain range near Resaca; took my Remington 700 SPS Tactical (in .308) with me. I've never fired this gun before today, and it's brand new - this is its first trip out since it left the Remington factory. It has a X-Mark PRO trigger in it (I still have the descriptive tag that was attached to the trigger). At the range, I tried like crazy (with a snap-cap instead of a live round) to make it fail. The only way I could make it go 'click', even after pulling the trigger repeatedly with the safety on to try to wiggle the sear, was to completely disengage the safety and then pull the trigger.

After I felt comfortable that it wasn't going to 'surprise' me, I put about 25 rounds through it, cycling the safety off and on every time. At the end of the range session, I loaded the snap-cap and again tried to make it fail. No dice; it wouldn't fire unless the safety was off AND the trigger was pulled.

So, if your gun has a X-Mark PRO trigger (and you're sure it does), you should be OK. I don't know how to tell, though . . . I just happened to have the trigger tag off my gun saved with the instruction manual. You may be able to call Remington customer service with your gun's S/N to find out - 1-800-243-9700, 9 AM-5 PM Eastern. If it doesn't, the trigger assembly is marked RESTRICTED in the parts list - meaning you can't buy one; you'll have to send the rifle back to a Remington Authorized Service Center for repair.

Good luck,
Teeter
 
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