Refresher training class

Discussion in 'Training' started by Adam5, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

    13,613
    158
    63
    I have never had formal instructor led training and would like to get some this year.

    I'm not a bad shot, but not a great shot either. Within 7 yards my groups are respectable, but beyond that they open up quickly. I want to take a back to basics class, but not necessarily a "This is how to load a gun basic class".

    I'm looking at Stoddards offerings and thinking module two, but am also wondering if I should take their basics class to get back to basics and go from there.

    https://www.stoddardsguns.com/class-descriptions/



    Suggestions, recommendations ?
     
  2. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

    9,075
    89
    48
    If I'm reading their page correctly, the mod-2 class is $69 for a one hour session. I don't know anything about their instructors, and I may have missed it, but I don't see instructor bios on their web page. They may be awesome, and I truly hope that they do a great job.

    I have an upcoming full-day training class for $100. It concludes range work as well as instruction use of force, the aftermath of a shooting incident, and trying to avoid them altogether. My bio is available here.

    I also offer a recommendation for Sparrow Defense. He has an upcoming class that will accomplish what you want to accomplish and then some. I know some others here have trained with him as well.
     

  3. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,543
    687
    113
    Adam 5, what do you need to work on?
    Slow fire, carefully aimed shooting?
    Timed fire, about a rate of 1 to 3 seconds per round?
    Does your accuracy beyond 7 yards have any time limit or pace you'd like to accomplish?
    If there is a time limit you have in mind, will that time limit apply to drawing from your holster, too?
    How's your draw stroke and weapon presentation?
    How's your skill at magazine changes?

    Can you see the sights clearly? If you shoot at an indoor range, is it well-lit?
    Is the target a color that contrasts to your sights? (I hate an all-black target with all-black sights at an indoor range).
     
  4. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,543
    687
    113
    I'm thinking that IF all you want is to shoot tighter groups at a moderate pace, you probably need a MARKSMANSHIP class, rather than a defensive shooting class that will involve a lot of other things besides the basics: sight alignment, and trigger control.

    Those are the only two basics of marksmanship. Whether with a handgun or rifle. Every other tip, policy, practice, drill, or instruction you'll get will be about getting your sights on the target in the correct alignment and keeping them there as you put enough pressure on the trigger to make it fire.

    You may benefit the most from one-on-one instruction / coaching, followed by a lot of dry-fire practice on your own at home, or even practicing with a different gun like a .22 pistol. Burning up 500 rounds of rimfire ammo will help you shoot tighter groups with ANY centerfire handgun, and it will only cost you 25% as much.
     
  5. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

    9,075
    89
    48
    If your technique is wrong, burning 500 rounds does nothing but wire in 500 round worth of bad info, and it will take far more than 500 good rounds to repair the bad programming.

    Marksmanship is a component of "defensive shooting".

    There are actually seven fundamentals of marksmanship. Trigger control and sight alignment are the two most important, but they aren't the only two, and they all really come down to trigger control.

    ---------

    I do offer private lessons as does Sparrow Defense.
     
  6. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

    13,613
    158
    63

    I want to take some carry/defensive classes this year, and work on linger range/faster pace accuracy. Before before I do, I would like to brush up on my fundamentals.

    I would like to shoot dinner plate size groups out to 25 yards.

    My draw and presentation are a little sloppy.

    My fundamentals may be solid, but I have never had "real" training. My father taught me to shoot when I was a teenager and I shot every few weeks for a few years, then didn't touch a gun for years. In my late 20's I started shooting again and taught myself from there.

    I just feel that back to basics couldn't do anything but help me improve and overcome any bad habits that I have picked up.
     
  7. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

    9,075
    89
    48
    They are not mutually exclusive.
     
  8. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

    5,634
    246
    63
    Adam5, there is no time like the present to just do it, and take a good carry fundamentals class. Just my two cents, but the Carry Essentials class is a solid class for this. And it's next month. I think it's a no brainer. You'll do just fine, you will brush up on the basics, and pick up some new skills. Fun course, too. I'm taking it again.
     
  9. hammerg26

    hammerg26 Member

    700
    7
    18
    I hear that legacy38 fellow is pretty great at what he does - just sayin

    Hammer

    PS I am not dinging any of the others listed here...
     
  10. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

    3,265
    527
    113
    Thanks for that.

    :)
     
  11. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,543
    687
    113
    I don't see a "carry fundamentals" class as the same as "fundamentals of handgun marksmanship."

    If Adam's goal is just to tighten his groups at 10, 15, and 25 yards, he doesn't need to spend his time and brain power listening to speeches about how to choose a defensive handgun, which caliber, what is a good holster to use, how women should or should not do purse carry. Any discussion of situational awareness is not helpful here. Nor does he need to practice clearing malfunctions, failure-to-stop drills (two in chest have no effect? Time for a head shot!) Adam doesn't need to deal with shooting games where magazine swaps are done on the clock. he doesn't need to fine-tune his draw stroke or weapon presentation to the target right now.

    It sounds like that as soon as the instructor confirms Adam knows how to operate his own weapon, knows Cooper's 4 rules of safety, and knows the range rules of that particular shooting range, the instructor can start all the training and exercises with Adam holding the firearm at low ready, and only shooting a small number of rounds per each timed "string" of shots. (or single shots, individually spotted with a scope or pair of binoculars).
     
  12. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

    3,265
    527
    113
    This is my thoughts as well. A marksmanship course that confirms, teaches and strengthen the foundations of marksmanship. If the foundation is sound then the rest is easy.
     
  13. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

    9,075
    89
    48
    Thank you for the kind words.
     
  14. rabbivj

    rabbivj My Name is Inigo Montoya

    4,025
    13
    38
    I've taken classes from both Chief and from Sparrow Defense. They are both VERY good at what they do and I've learned a lot from both.
     
  15. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,543
    687
    113
    What's a good accuracy level for a daily carry defensive handgun?
    (Not a match- oriented target pistol, race gun, or a full sized duty pistol that most people find too big and bulky for carry (5" or longer barrel))?

    I shot some 25 yard groups (standing, 2-hand stance) around 4" and 6" with compact 9 mm's the other day. I had one or two flyers out of each 10-shot group, and I'm counting the best 8 or 9.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,543
    687
    113
    Above was from a Ruger SR-9c.
    A rented gun that I only had about 20 minutes with.

    Next, I swapped it out for a S&W Shield, which also felt pretty good in my hand.

    This group might have been a bit smaller IF I had discarded the worst two, but I was in a hurry and just measured all 10 at the widest point.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  17. Feral

    Feral Active Member

    1,455
    7
    38
    For 25 yards? I'm no expert but in my opinion at 25 yards with a compact pistol that's respectable gunsmoker. It's similar to my accuracy at that range with my compact.

    Of course my group tightens considerably as I close the gap, particularly to the standard 7 or 10 yard range for defensive ranges.

    As for Adam5. If money is not a concern I would take every class I could. That's just my personal feelings. I enjoy learning, particularly about firearms. I look forward to when I can take a formal class.
     
  18. fmlaw1

    fmlaw1 Active Member

    3,721
    0
    36
    Legacy: would using a M&P22 pistol be a good choice for class?
     
  19. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,428
    113
    How would you do if the target was angrily shooting at you?
     
  20. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,428
    113
    Adam5, then get some.

    Seriously.

    It is difficult to explain how this will benefit you until you experience the benefits for yourself.

    For a hundred bucks, all day with Lee seems like a steal.

    He is a great shooter. Less than 1% of the people here on this web site could hang with him shooting a pistol. I bet you would pick up a lot in his class, and do not be surprised if more of it is "fundamentals" than you suspect.