Question for those who don't believe Obama's a citizen

Discussion in 'Off-topic Political' started by BirdMan, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. BirdMan

    BirdMan Active Member

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    I don't necessarily have an opinion one way or another on the citizenship controversy. I don't really want to stir the pudding, but I've got what I think is a reasonable question. If Obama was really born in Indonesia and flown to HI shortly after his birth, as the birthers say, would there necessarily be a record of him or his parent arriving in an airport customs line before he was supposedly presented to the hospital for the live birth certificate? Has that question ever been addressed?

    EDITED:
    Sorry, I didn't realize 'birther' was insulting. I changed that term, because I don't want to insult anyone.
     
  2. Fallschirmjäger

    Fallschirmjäger I watch the watchers

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    Re: Honest question for birthers

    Not necessarily. I seem to recall a few trips to foreign countries (Canada and Panama) where I didn't even GET a passport stamp on arrival, unless I specifically requested it. I recall passing through Italy and Austria where I only got a cursory glance at my passport before being waved on through.

    There's not much use in getting a passport photograph of a newborn, the all look just as ugly, and at that time you didn't get a social security number until you entered the workforce and Needed one.
     

  3. Owl

    Owl New Member

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    Re: Honest question for birthers

    Indonesia?


    Kenya.


    You think they can't cover up whatever they want?

    If you wanted real dialog from folks that think he may be the first non-citizen President, you'd probably not have started out insulting people with the "birther" tag.

    and with that, i'm done.
     
  4. Match10

    Match10 Active Member

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    Re: Honest question for birthers

    Other than the insulting, "Birther" label....

    We very well may have the first non-citizen President of the USA. All because the mass-marketing and masses wanted him. Does he represent the best for the USA?

    Why is it so hard to "prove it"? I had to.
     
  5. BirdMan

    BirdMan Active Member

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    Re: Honest question for birthers

    I'm sorry; I didn't realize 'birther' was a pejorative. I just wanted to ask the question of people who don't believe he's a citizen. No offense intended. I edited the original post. I'm just curious whether there would be an immigration record - if not for him, then for his mother, father, or a close relative.
     
  6. smn

    smn Active Member

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    The key difference between anyone born outside the US and inside the US is when they're born outside the US they're not a natural born citizen and therefore ineligible to be President of the United States.
     
  7. CountryGun

    CountryGun New Member

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    Re: Honest question for birthers

    Thanks, "BirdMan"! You'll get better feedback with this. I, incidentally, was not offended, but I can see where some might be.
     
  8. CountryGun

    CountryGun New Member

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    If he was born in Kenya, wouldn't his name be carved in a "totem" or something?
     
  9. BirdMan

    BirdMan Active Member

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    I really don't have much of a problem with either side of the argument. I simply don't feel I have enough data to make a judgement, although their continuing difficulty providing a birth certificate sure seems to lend credibility to the not-a-citizen crowd. I certainly don't have any difficulty believing that the administration could be lying through their teeth at us. I even look out a window to make sure when they say the sky is blue. Bunch of snakes. They definitely have the power to suppress evidence if they wanted to.
     
  10. CoffeeMate

    CoffeeMate Junior Butt Warmer

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    This. I believe he's a US citizen, but I do not believe he meets the eligibility rquirements to be President.


    As for any passport stamps or other paperwork from back when his parents entered or re-entered the country with a newborn baby-bama in hand... no doubt any such things were lost long ago in a tragic election, er... boating accident.
     
  11. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    Yes, calling someone a "Birther" is now really an insult, its a way to stop conversation and progress and to shut the opposition up. It stifles conversation and discussion.

    Its just like that guy who came on here and started calling everyone a tin foil hat wearer because you dare question what is being taught in high schools and colleges around the country, and you dare to go against what the media tells us, or you dare to question the established common knowledge of most American people.
     
  12. Match10

    Match10 Active Member

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    Re: Honest question for birthers

    Then why not describe it as, "An honest question for those who do not believe Obama is a natural born citizen of the USA"? OK, maybe that is abit long for the title! :wink:
     
  13. ookoshi

    ookoshi Moderator

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    Not that this applies to Obama, but I want to correct something. You can be a natural born citizen even if you're born outside the United States. The key is whether you are a citizen at birth or you had to go through the naturalization process. Nowhere does the law define "natural" as being born within the borders of the United States. I was born in Taiwan but my dad had been a U.S. citizen for nearly 20 years before I was born. As such, I am a natural born citizen.

    There are only 2 types of citizens. 1) Natural born citizens, and 2) citizens naturalized after the fact.

    The supreme court has already ruled on this.

    However, this has nothing to do with Obama. IF Obama was born abroad, he doesn't qualify as a citizen born abroad because of laws discussed many times in other thread (his mom was only 18 years old and she had to be 19 to confer citizenship by parenthood).

    In other words, if Obama was really born in Kenya, he is *still* not a citizen, he is only a permanent resident by virtue of his mother being a U.S. citizen, and he would have to take the citizenship test to become naturalized.
     
  14. cherok

    cherok New Member

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    from http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... e17b21abe3

    now look... unless this conspiracy started when he was born... it certainly seems like he is a "natural" citizen.
     
  15. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    And what proof is the health director offering to PROVE she had seen and verified all this? Any proof, or are we just going on the health directors word?

    I mean for a cool $50,000 bucks, I'll tell you that I can shoot fireballs out of my eyes and bolts of lightening out of my rear. Now proving I can do it, well that is a different story.

    I only say this, because what is $50,000 to Obama when he is spending a million dollars a year for attorneys to suppress every single document that has ever been created that happens to have his name on it. Just saying.
     
  16. GAGunOwner

    GAGunOwner Active Member

    You can pay to have birth notices put in any paper, anywhere.

    Right?
     
  17. smn

    smn Active Member

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  18. ookoshi

    ookoshi Moderator

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    What? That's not what U.S. v Wong Kim Ark says at all. That case was about the 14th amendment allowing all Chinese people born in the U.S. citizens regardless of what Congress puts in the Chinese Exclusion Act, as the Constitution overrides Congress.

    In fact, the majority opinion was VERY specific to say that the roots of this goes back to English common law, and that anyone who is subject to the domain of the United States, which includes all people born in the United States (except for foreign rulers/diplomats, people born on foreign ships, and enemy occupiers), is a natural born citizen.

    This was expanded on in Perkins v. Elg and other cases.
     
  19. Fallschirmjäger

    Fallschirmjäger I watch the watchers

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    Some hospitals send out routine notices, some don't.
    I'm sure the newspaper would accept your check if you wanted to announce the birth of kittens. They have no legal responsibility to ensure accuracy.
     
  20. mathar1

    mathar1 New Member

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    I find it interesting that the lady said she SAW the evidence yada, yada, yada yet the Governor of Hawaii has 3 trained FORENSIC detectives who cannot find ANY single document/microfiche/computer record of anything involving Obama. The lady can claim anything she wants but when trained FORENSIC investigators at the Governor's request can't find squat ....... :sly:

    And Obama is losing supporters like rats off a sinking ship. They KNOW he is going down and don't want any of it sticking to them. :lol: