[JeffSmith2208]

Safe to carry or not?

 

[slammy]

To gray for me I won't.

 

[mountainpass]

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=51598&hilit=library

 

[Khondker]

I think Public Library is Government Building.

(3) "Government building" means:

(A) The building in which a government entity is housed;

(B) The building where a government entity meets in its official capacity; provided, however, that if such building is not a publicly owned building, such building shall be considered a government building for the purposes of this Code section only during the time such government entity is meeting at such building; or

(C) The portion of any building that is not a publicly owned building that is occupied by a government entity.

(4) "Government entity" means an office, agency, authority, department, commission, board, body, division, instrumentality, or institution of the state or any county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or local board of education within this state.

Public Library employs are employed by the county.

 

[budder]

I think Public Library is Government Building.

(3) "Government building" means:

(A) The building in which a government entity is housed;

(B) The building where a government entity meets in its official capacity; provided, however, that if such building is not a publicly owned building, such building shall be considered a government building for the purposes of this Code section only during the time such government entity is meeting at such building; or

(C) The portion of any building that is not a publicly owned building that is occupied by a government entity.

(4) "Government entity" means an office, agency, authority, department, commission, board, body, division, instrumentality, or institution of the state or any county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or local board of education within this state.

Public Library employs are employed by the county.

Good for them?

 

[rmodel65]

I think Public Library is Government Building.

(3) "Government building" means:

(A) The building in which a government entity is housed;

(B) The building where a government entity meets in its official capacity; provided, however, that if such building is not a publicly owned building, such building shall be considered a government building for the purposes of this Code section only during the time such government entity is meeting at such building; or

(C) The portion of any building that is not a publicly owned building that is occupied by a government entity.

(4) "Government entity" means an office, agency, authority, department, commission, board, body, division, instrumentality, or institution of the state or any county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or local board of education within this state.

Public Library employs are employed by the county.

Good for them?

the law say entity ie: if the library commision met there...says nothing about library employees in general making it off limits

 

[Ruger66]

Libraries are a unique entity in this state. Regional Libraries fall under the Board of Regents and receive a lot of there funding through the state. They also receive funding from local government entities (county, city, and local boards of education). Some libraries by-laws suggest they are part of the county and must have their budget approved by the county.

So, with all that said, depends on which library you are in as to what government entity they fall under. But they are considered government buildings and therefore, off-limits. :screwy:

 

[rmodel65]

what govt entity meets in your local library there ruger?

"Government entity" means an office, agency, authority, department, commission, board, body, division, instrumentality, or institution of the state or any county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or local board of education within this state.

 

[CountryGun]

I no more see a lone librarian as a government entity than I do the lone deputy sitting in an office at the mall.

The US Census Bureau gives a detailed definition of a "government entity". An important element of that definition is "Substantial Autonomy". The librarian, dependent on the county commission to set budgets, allocate funds, and govern, has no such autonomy. From the definition:

Conversely, separate existence is not attributed to entities which lack either fiscal or administrative independence. Some local government agencies having considerable fiscal autonomy are classified as dependent agencies of another government rather than as governments because one or more of the following characteristics is present:

(1) Control of the agency by a board composed wholly or mainly of parent government officials.

(2) Control by the agency over facilities that supplement, serve, or take the place of facilities ordinarily provided by the creating government.

(3) Provision that agency properties and responsibilities revert to the creating government after agency debt has been repaid.

(4) Requirements for approval of agency plans by the creating government.

(5) Legislative or executive specification by the parent government as to the location and type of facilities the agency is to construct and maintain.

(6) Dependence of an agency for all or a substantial part of its revenues on appropriations or allocations made at the discretion of another state or local government.

(7) Provision for the review and the detailed modification of agency budgets by another local government. County review of agency budgets in connection with statutory limitations on tax rates, however, is not, by itself, sufficient to establish lack of fiscal autonomy.

The librarian is an employee of the county, but does not constitute a government entity.
IANAL......JMHO The building then is not off limits, unless the County Commission meets there, and then only while they meet. There are other threads on this subject. Sheriff Oconee and Legacy have been very vocal in stating the library is off limits. I suppose we'll never have a consensus, but MP does promise that restrictions on government buildings will die. That will be another grand day in the history of GeorgiaCarry.org.

 

[Phil1979]

Thanks CountryGun for posting that. I'm convinced that library carry is legal for GWL holders in most cases.

However, because librarians, police, prosecutors, and judges may not fully understand the law, I will always CC carefully while visiting one, until better laws are passed. Then it will be OC all the way. What better place to help educate the sheep about their rights than a place of education?

 

[Ruger66]

what govt entity meets in your local library there ruger?

The library board meets there. Occasionally the commission will meet there; no question about it then.

I think Public Library is Government Building.

(3) "Government building" means:

(A) The building in which a government entity is housed;

(B) The building where a government entity meets in its official capacity; provided, however, that if such building is not a publicly owned building, such building shall be considered a government building for the purposes of this Code section only during the time such government entity is meeting at such building; or

(C) The portion of any building that is not a publicly owned building that is occupied by a government entity.

(4) "Government entity" means an office, agency, authority, department, commission, board, body, division, instrumentality, or institution of the state or any county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or local board of education within this state.

Public Library employs are employed by the county.

Library buildings are publicly owned, making them a government building. Since they fall under the Board of Regents or County Governments, I consider them off-limits. What would be the difference in a library building and a DOT building or a DOL building? Not saying I agree with it, just what I believe based on what I know about libraries.

But hey, IANAL. Good time to CC until the law gets changed and we know for sure we can carry there. :righton:

 

[rmodel65]

i always carry to the library

 

[CoffeeMate]

Isn't the public library a state/county institution?

 

[CountryGun]

Isn't the public library a state/county institution?

It likely is,.....but is it autonomous? I don't think so, and therein lies the difference. The library is still very much dependent on the decisions of the county commissioners, who do not reside in the library.

 

[CoffeeMate]

Isn't the public library a state/county institution?

It likely is,.....but is it autonomous? I don't think so, and therein lies the difference. The library is still very much dependent on the decisions of the county commissioners, who do not reside in the library.

I don't see anything in the statute about autonomy.

I do see in the statute wording about being an "institution" and "housed".

 

[SheriffOconee]

Ya'll do what you want.
MY ADVICE, and you can take it or not, is that if the decision is made to arrest you for carrying a gun in a PUBLIC LIBRARY, then it would at least survive a preliminary hearing, and likely be presented for indictment or accusation.
I would suspect that a prosecutor or DA could, and would try, to make a case it is in fact a government entity.

Whether I agree ain't the point.

Proceed at your own risk.

 

[CountryGun]

Ya'll do what you want.
MY ADVICE, and you can take it or not, is that if the decision is made to arrest you for carrying a gun in a PUBLIC LIBRARY, then it would at least survive a preliminary hearing, and likely be presented for indictment or accusation.
I would suspect that a prosecutor or DA could, and would try, to make a case it is in fact a government entity.

Whether I agree ain't the point.

Proceed at your own risk.

I couldn't wait for you to join in, Sheriff. Thanks!

PUBLIC LIBRARIES will die the way that public gatherings died. I honestly think you would support that. Libraries, as well as many other "weak examples" of government buildings will all disappear soon. We should not have to keep our heads buried in dictionaries to understand the laws! Why should I, or any other citizen, have to jump such hoops to understand what we can and can not do while following the law?

Sheriff, I respect your position more than you'll know, and I truly believe you side with citizens in the midst of this confusion. I think you testified, in the House, against public gathering restrictions, and I thank you for it. Now, help us clean up the rest of the mess. We want very much to obey the laws of Georgia, but when even Georgia LEOs think we're an open carry state without a permit,....................well, you see where I'm going.

I very much appreciate your contributions. Keep up the good work!

 

[RickN]

I think the Duluth Branch of the Gwinnett Library System is a division of the Gwinnett County government. As such, it is an entity housed in the Duluth library building.

I might be wrong, but I'm not willing to risk it. I will not carry in there until there is an official opinion/ruling/clarification/whatever that I am incorrect.

 

[phantoms]

Libraries are a unique entity in this state. Regional Libraries fall under the Board of Regents and receive a lot of there funding through the state. They also receive funding from local government entities (county, city, and local boards of education). Some libraries by-laws suggest they are part of the county and must have their budget approved by the county.

Where the funding comes from has no bearing on whether a building is off-limits.

So, with all that said, depends on which library you are in as to what government entity they fall under. But they are considered government buildings and therefore, off-limits. :screwy:

Just because a building is a Government building doesn't mean it's off-limits. It has to meet the definition of housing a Government Entity as defined in the code.

 

[kkennett]

Perhaps one thought: this very debate is the definition of ambiguity. The standard is supposed to be that a man of reasonable intelligence can read the law and know what exactly is forbidden. Doubt is supposed to break the citizen's way. In this instance, I would clearly argue in a criminal context that this "government building" language is vague as applied to a random branch library. Plainly by legislative history, the new law is not meant to be the same as "publicly owned". There must be some difference between a government owned building, and a "government building", as used in this statute. Bottom line is, this statute needs a little refinement for definition.