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Romans 10:13
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GAGunOwner said:
IMO, people are still responsible for their actions, regardless of what chemicals are present in their system.
Strong perscription drugs can transcend this. People can and do loose total control on strong perscription drugs, if a gun happened to be present and they shot someone, they wouldn't be responsible.
Are you serious :?:
 

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Never a black & white issue.
You go to the doc & explain that you've been sleeping really poorly lately so he give you a rx for some ambien but you have a mediocre doc & a grossly overworked pharmacist & no one tells you that this stuff has some serious side affects on some people. The next thing you know you are talking to little green fairies and riding camels through your living room.

Been there done that. Had no clue the stuff was going to affect me like that. Normally I'm VERY drug tolerant - takes a larger than average dose of most things to affect me as it should. Ambien is not that way for me. That stuff is FUN. :lol:

I was never out of control but I was a bit out of my mind when I was on it (had some to help me sleep when I had Lasek done a couple years ago). If something like that can do to me what it did then.... Well I know there are other MUCH more powerful "mind altering" substances out there. If someone went through something along those lines and was already say clinically paranoid or depressed or had anger management issues then I can see how they could harm another person while under the influence.
If for whatever reason some kind of med was prescribed to you and you were warned that it can affect you in various ways would you move all you weapons out of your home for the entire time you were going to be medicated? I wouldn't.

Please not this is in no way an excuse for guys like Cho. I don't think meds had much to do with his rampage. But I do think a situation could exist where meds are the cause.
 

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GeorgiaGlocker said:
Are you serious :?:
Is that directed towards me?

If so, am I serious about what?

Note: As a rule of thumb, I'm always lying... but especially if I put a pinocchi-nose at the end of a statement... Or if it is something outrageous like having pillows and blankets for my Glocks... so, if you are talking about the "drugs and .22s" comment, then "NO, I am not serious."

On the other hand, I stand behind the "being responsible for drugs and guns" statement. I was not lying about that.
 

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As mentioned, some drugs particularly some of the anti-psychotic drugs, do cause MAJOR problems for some people. Enough so that some people become suicidal. So, I guess maybe it's possible to become homocidal as well, but I don't know enough to even hazard an opinion.

Having said that, in no way do I think Cho's actions can be blamed on his drugs, but...

I'm willing to wager my left gonad some lawyer will sue the drug maker on behalf of one or more of the victims. I'm a little surprised it hasn't happened yet. VT is also on their radar for not locking down campus sooner. Looks like lots of billable hours for lots of attorneys just over the horizon...!

So. Anybody wanna bet?
 

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Macktee said:
As mentioned, some drugs particularly some of the anti-psychotic drugs, do cause MAJOR problems for some people. Enough so that some people become suicidal. So, I guess maybe it's possible to become homocidal as well, but I don't know enough to even hazard an opinion.

Having said that, in no way do I think Cho's actions can be blamed on his drugs, but...

I'm willing to wager my left gonad some lawyer will sue the drug maker on behalf of one or more of the victims. I'm a little surprised it hasn't happened yet. VT is also on their radar for not locking down campus sooner. Looks like lots of billable hours for lots of attorneys just over the horizon...!

So. Anybody wanna bet?
Be careful Macktee, that's how I became a eunuch... I lost three bets in a row. :cry:
 

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Romans 10:13
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GAGunOwner said:
IMO, people are still responsible for their actions, regardless of what chemicals are present in their system.
Strong perscription drugs can transcend this. People can and do loose total control on strong perscription drugs, if a gun happened to be present and they shot someone, they wouldn't be responsible.
Are you serious :?:
 

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Romans 10:13
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ahlongslide said:
GeorgiaGlocker said:
Are you serious :?:
Is that directed towards me?

If so, am I serious about what?

Note: As a rule of thumb, I'm always lying... but especially if I put a pinocchi-nose at the end of a statement... Or if it is something outrageous like having pillows and blankets for my Glocks... so, if you are talking about the "drugs and .22s" comment, then "NO, I am not serious."

On the other hand, I stand behind the "being responsible for drugs and guns" statement. I was not lying about that.
No Sir. :)
 

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Romans 10:13
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Macktee said:
As mentioned, some drugs particularly some of the anti-psychotic drugs, do cause MAJOR problems for some people. Enough so that some people become suicidal. So, I guess maybe it's possible to become homocidal as well, but I don't know enough to even hazard an opinion.

Having said that, in no way do I think Cho's actions can be blamed on his drugs, but...

I'm willing to wager my left gonad some lawyer will sue the drug maker on behalf of one or more of the victims. I'm a little surprised it hasn't happened yet. VT is also on their radar for not locking down campus sooner. Looks like lots of billable hours for lots of attorneys just over the horizon...!

So. Anybody wanna bet?
I would guess that VT is looking at 32 lawsuits coming their way.
 

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Here goes. Yes, I'm serious. Yes, I'm serious. Yes, I'm serious. :lol:

Sometimes reactions to strong perscription drugs can and do make people go out of their mind. I'm sorry that you don't want to accept this, but it is scientific fact. However, I don't believe this to have anything to do with Cho.

THEY SHOULD BE!!! Why would you take strong prescription drugs that are known to make you lose control when there are GUNS around?!?!?
I agree with this for the most part but sometimes perscription drugs catch up with you. You can take simple perscribed medication (should you not carry whenever the doctor gives you something, I do not know) and then have a wild reaction and have access to guns.

You may also go apeshit on perscription drugs and end up getting guns out that you have put away. Unlikely, but it can happen.
 

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16-3-4
(a) A person shall not be found guilty of a crime when, at the time of the act, omission, or negligence constituting the crime, the person, because of involuntary intoxication, did not have sufficient mental capacity to distinguish between right and wrong in relation to such act.

(b) Involuntary intoxication means intoxication caused by:

(1) Consumption of a substance through excusable ignorance; or

(2) The coercion, fraud, artifice, or contrivance of another person.

(c) Voluntary intoxication shall not be an excuse for any criminal act or omission.
Would this apply if you were given a perscripton drug under a doctor's care?
 

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Y'know, I've been on lithium and Lexapro daily for 3 years, and xanax and ambien when I need them, and I've been a gun owner for the past 6 months, and NEVER, not ONE SINGLE TIME, have I gone off my rocker and shot anyone.

In fact, the only time anyone would have to worry about me harming anyone with a weapon would be if he or she gave me a damn good (defensable) reason to do so.

My psychiatrist and my therapist both know about my gun ownership and both told me they thought it was a good idea.

In the 30 months I was on meds BEFORE owning a gun I didn't kill anyone. The meds didn't walk out of their childproof bottles and go kill someone. In the 6 months I've owned the Taurus it's never left its holster to go kill someone.

Pardon my language here, but the media needs to collectively get a f*cking life.
 

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GAGunOwner said:
16-3-4
(a) A person shall not be found guilty of a crime when, at the time of the act, omission, or negligence constituting the crime, the person, because of involuntary intoxication, did not have sufficient mental capacity to distinguish between right and wrong in relation to such act.

(b) Involuntary intoxication means intoxication caused by:

(1) Consumption of a substance through excusable ignorance; or

(2) The coercion, fraud, artifice, or contrivance of another person.

(c) Voluntary intoxication shall not be an excuse for any criminal act or omission.
Would this apply if you were given a perscripton drug under a doctor's care?
excusable ignorance? nice choice of words there...

It seems like it would be pretty difficult to prove that you were unable to distinguish between right and wrong...
 

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Romans 10:13
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GAGunOwner said:
Here goes. Yes, I'm serious. Yes, I'm serious. Yes, I'm serious. :lol:

Sometimes reactions to strong perscription drugs can and do make people go out of their mind. I'm sorry that you don't want to accept this, but it is scientific fact. However, I don't believe this to have anything to do with Cho.

THEY SHOULD BE!!! Why would you take strong prescription drugs that are known to make you lose control when there are GUNS around?!?!?
I agree with this for the most part but sometimes perscription drugs catch up with you. You can take simple perscribed medication (should you not carry whenever the doctor gives you something, I do not know) and then have a wild reaction and have access to guns.

You may also go apeshit on perscription drugs and end up getting guns out that you have put away. Unlikely, but it can happen.
That is why pharmacist place those little labels on some drugs that say "do not drive or operate equipment or heavy machinery" when taking this medication. Why? because of the side effects. :roll:
 

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Can I use that excusable ignorance line for the speed limit? :D
 

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Romans 10:13
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Rammstein said:
Can I use that excusable ignorance line for the speed limit? :D
I guess you could Ramm but I don't think you would get too far with it.
 
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