Police trainer broke safety rules

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Gunstar1, Sep 15, 2005.

  1. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/c ... html?imw=Y

     
  2. seajay

    seajay Active Member

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    Kind of an extreme demonstration don't ya think?
     

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Why demonstrate by drawing while facing toward someone? Having been through many formal police firearms training courses in Georgia, I must say this this is not standard operating procedure, even assuming the gun was supposed to be unloaded.
     
  4. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    News today, metro section, he is not being charged and not being fired. He is being demoted to "deputy" and thirty days without pay.

    He thought the gun had blanks, said the article.

    I would not want somebody discharging blanks toward me, either, and what could possibly be the reason for this reloading drill where you pull the trigger twice while facing somebody? Huh?


    I think there would be a negligent homicide charge or something similar if this were anybody but a law enforcement officer.
     
  5. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Active Member

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    As I see it, he is guilty of committing 2 crimes.

    Aggravated Assualt for pointing the weapon at Ms. Drummond

    and

    Voluntary manslaughter since he was in the commission of a crime that resulted in the death of another individual, albeit un-intentional.

    Thats my :2cents:
     
  6. EagleEye920

    EagleEye920 Member

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    Wow. That seems a little harsh. I don't know the whole story but if this was truly an accident, then I can't see those charges applying :)

    It's tragic that someone was killed because of this. I just don't see criminal charges applying.
     
  7. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Victims family sure should be able to sue the hell out of him though, make his 30 days without pay seem good compared to giving the whole check to the victims family for years.

    By the way, it is not Accidental discharge if he pulled the trigger, it is Negligent discharge. Accident would be dropping on the ground or trigger was snagged, negligent is pulling the trigger even if you think it is unloaded or loaded with snap caps or blanks.
     
  8. EagleEye920

    EagleEye920 Member

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    This probably will happen. legal? yes. "should" they? I wouldn't. But it's not my call ;)

    if this was in reference to my "if this was truly an accident" statement, then we're talking about 2 different things. I understand the whole accidental vs. negligent discharge topic. What i was referring to was the fact that this incident was an accident, not done on purpose. Whether the discharge was accidental or neglient, I don't know, but the whole situation was an accident. :)
     
  9. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    It was an accident in terms of the fact that he did not set out to kill the recruit. But, he pointed a loaded gun at her at close range and pulled the trigger. He did intend to point the gun at her and he did intend to pull the trigger. That is, all of his actions were intentional. He just did not intend for live ammunition to be in the gun.

    It was probably involuntary manslaughter, not voluntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter requires sudden, violent passion (i.e., it still has an intentional component). Involuntary manslaughter is the unintentional killing of another human being. It can be a felony or a misdemeanor. The only difference between the two is the felony flavor results from an unlawful act (other than a felony), while misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter results from a lawful act committed in an unlawful manner. Assuming that it was lawful for the the shooter to point the gun and pull the trigger, but not with live ammo (unlawful manner), it would be a misdemeanor. If, in fact, it was unlawful to point the gun and pull the trigger, it would be felony involuntary manslaughter.
     
  10. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    I figured that is what you meant. I just wanted to clarify that if you violate a gun safety rule such as pulling the trigger while pointed at someone/something you don't want dead is negligent, period.
     
  11. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    JRM

    JRM, thanks for that excellent post about the difference between voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter, and the two different kinds of involuntary manslaughter based on either a misdemeanor crime (pointing a pistol at another, 16-11-102) or some act that is "lawful" but still reckless. Involuntary manslaughter based on a misdemeanor crime still carries up to a 10-year penalty.

    I used to think, when I would review somebody's GCIC (criminal history) and see "involuntary manslaughter," that the person was really a murderer who had reached a plea-bargain with the state to plea to this reduced charge. Certainly this sometimes happens. But there are also a good number of people out there who have been convicted of "involuntary manslaughter" for doing something stupid and dangerous with a buddy, and the buddy ends up dead. A fairly common example is when a young man steals his mother's prescription painkillers and brings them to a drug party. Other people take them, too. The next morning one of them is found dead in a puddle of cold vomit on the floor. Guess what? The kid who brought the drugs to the party committed "involuntary manslaughter." If he had sold or distributed the drug in question to the deceased (if the state could prove this), this felony VGCSA offense would make the death "felony murder." Felony murder is a capital offense in Georgia! Yet he's not a "murderer" in the traditional sense, as most people understand the word. He didn't intend for anybody to die, and it is not even LIKELY that somebody will die if you allow them to take a couple presecription painkillers. It's a risk, sure. Not a risk I'd be willing to take. But 99 out of 100 times, the pill-popper will only get high and/or pass out, to fully recover within a day or two.
     
  12. mountainpass

    mountainpass Under Scrutiny

    link
     
  13. Fallschirmjäger

    Fallschirmjäger I watch the watchers

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    That's sad, I hate to see Mr Jackson's life [s:3bvuzyfy]ruined[/s:3bvuzyfy] inconvenienced for 4 years, but he did kinda... you know... put a total and complete end to some innocent person's life,...
     
  14. tbill

    tbill Member

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    This is what blue guns are for. This is mindblowing to think of using a real firearm to demonstrate this action. I really feel for the kid he killed and I'm flabbergasted the "Instructor" is still a sworn Officer.
     
  15. MesaCranker

    MesaCranker Active Member

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    Not the first time this has happened at an academy in Georgia. Before, the instructor wanted the recruits to know the feeling of a gun pointed at them. In demonstrating the draw drill, a round was fired into the chest of the female recruit. Same tragic result. Un-freakin-believable.
     
  16. Xiclotl

    Xiclotl New Member

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    If I'm thinkng of the right person I believe that the female recruit killed was the daughter the guy that delivers coffee to my building. Sad.
     
  17. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Well I hope there's a lawsuit, and I hope the County pays a lot of money, and I hope new rules are put in place (or old rules reinforced, published more visibly, etc.) to make it less likely this might happen again one day.

    One time I did a training exercise with simunition-- paintball type ammo that actually fires through your real handgun.
    Everybody participating in this exercise was not only TOLD to show up for it with an empty gun and not a single live round of ammo anywhere on your person, but we were searched and all our weapons checked by the instructor to make sure, before EACH of the several situaitons we played.
     
  18. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    I can't believe the instructor who killed someone did not have to spend a single day in jail, I'm sure any regular guy would have been charged with negligent homicide or manslaughter... something.
     
  19. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Pic of plaque at the Tara Drummond trailhead just west of Villa Rica on the Silver Comet Trail.
     

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